poll250 0 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Great work as usual Kev!Would love to get rid of all that ISV pipework one day. I take it you need a standalone like DTA to get this running on a 12V though. Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Thanks mate :-) Yes it's great binning off all the ISV stuff and the idle quality is just so much better!Looks like the detonation problems were caused by fuel supply issues, so I'm fitting a new pump and filter this weekend. There was also an air leak between the Throttle and intake elbow which wasn't helping matters, but I've corrected that too.Drives superb now :-) Brings a 12V a bit more up to date!You don't need a standalone mate, well, it's probably easier but I'm pretty sure an ME7 ECU could be adapted somehow to run a 12V.They use the same 60-2 crank wheel and sensor position as the 12V, but the biggest difference is the 24V uses a 4 tooth cam trigger. 12V's is one tooth. I guess you could mock up a 4 tooth wheel and bolt it onto the 12V's rear cam and then just disable the VVT adjustment in the ECU. An early BDE 24V ECU would be best for this as it's VVT on the intake only and is also a coilpack engine.Or maybe an Audi S4 biturbo ECU could be used if you're going boost. It has the right MAF and setup already in it for boost ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
spadam 7 Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Kev when do you expect to be experimenting with the 24v engine. Wouldnt mind knowing some more about turboing a 24v. Suppose you will have to make a lot of changes to get in in and running. Would the exhaust manifold be diffrent? Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 It was going to be imminently, but since the 12V appears to have survived it's ordeal, I will relax a bit on the 24V development.I have a 24V chain set, uprated 24V intermediate sprocket and 264/260 techtonics cams on the way over from Schimmel. I'm going to run it naturally aspirated first and push for 100hp/litre. Everything you do to improve a n'asp engine makes every psi of boost that much stronger ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
spadam 7 Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 That sounds intresting is it a 2.8 block from a v6 4motion. Link to post Share on other sites
matty.vrt 120 Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Yeh too true take the e46 m3 they have 340 ish bhp out of a 3.2 simply add a modist 6 psi and you running over 500bhp straight away. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 The 12v runs easy enough on ME7, Simply use a 12v ME7 ECU The early engine with the single coil and lack of real VVT is the AUE engine.I have adapted the AUE ECU to run on our VR6 Turbo with 85mm Throttle body. Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Ah nice one! Is that the American MK4 12V ECU? I know they use a DBW throttle, which has to be ME7. Even better then if there's already an ECU that can do the job! 85mm must have been a bit snappy? The standard 63mm plate I find is responsive enough :-)Yeh too true take the e46 m3 they have 340 ish bhp out of a 3.2 simply add a modist 6 psi and you running over 500bhp straight away.Yep!Civic Type Rs are brilliant cars for the 1/4 mile. Light weight, flow huge amounts of air and like you say, they only need 10psi to break into the 11s. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Ah nice one! Is that the American MK4 12V ECU? I know they use a DBW throttle' date=' which has to be ME7. Even better then if there's already an ECU that can do the job! 85mm must have been a bit snappy? The standard 63mm plate I find is responsive enough :-)[/quote']The american MK4 12v runs a early version of ME7, Although we used the AUE ECU in the end, and adapted it.Its not snappy at all, but that is ME7 torque and filling control for you Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I thought the AUE is a 24V engine? Which is what I was getting at: adapt a 24V ME7 to run on a 12V, which you've done, so good stuff! :-)I think it must be the AUE 24V I have then, not the BDE. Pretty sure mine only has VVT on the inlet, which is what I wanted really.Do you happen to know the VGI and VVT switching rpms?Hmmmm, not a fan of VW's torque strategy mapping personally. It does horrible things in our standard ME7 Polo 1.8T!!The simpler, the better as far as I'm concerned :-) Link to post Share on other sites
gazzer 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Excellent bit of reading, nice job on the conversion Kev. Spotted a few pictures of the other conversions people have done and the controversy between intercoolers and charge coolers. Ultimately I have signed up to take a look at VR6 engines running forced induction and everything surrounding it. Space was one of my concerns and being able to run it on the standard management was another as I'd want to build it on a budget.I own a high performance N/A car which only really gets used on track days but want a road car that retains drivability whilst being able to perform when I want it to. Always loved the VR6 engine and I think I will finally purchase myself a nice Mk3 Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted July 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Haven't done a lot on the car lately, but decided to get the 24V built up and out of the way today.Timing up a 24V bottom end is exactly the same as a 12V.TDC on No.1 cylinder. Notch in the crank pulley aligns with a rib on the front crank seal housing.....Crank sprocket has a ground tooth which aligns with the rear main bearing cap....Same lower tensioner and chains.....And the intermediate shaft position. The arrow aligns with a notch in the block....And remember guys, the intermediate shaft only aligns correctly once every 4 turns of the crank. A very common mistake people make with VR6 timing Block is great after 135K. Bores are a little polished but nothing out of the ordinary.24V blocks and heads clean up a LOT better than 12V ones do...Negligable valve stem wear. Valves and valve seats look A1. Living proof that VAG's 20K oil services aren't as bad as people think.ARP rod bolts thrown in....Schimmel 264 cams arriving on Monday and I also need to replace the intermediate pulley as they're a weak spot on the 24V, but it's back ordered.I'll go through cam fitment and timing in the next instalment :-) Link to post Share on other sites
bungy 2 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Watching this now with much interest. When you had the head off have you increased the compression for running initially n/a? How much can you get away with before mechanical interference? Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Nah standard compression mate. I'm just keen to see how much you can get out of a n'asp 24V with simple mods :-) Not really part of the nature of this thread I guess, but as I don't have a gallery threads, here's as good as anywhere i suppose! Link to post Share on other sites
MNZ 0 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I hope you don't mind me posting in here Kev but wondering if any of you have any ideas on my issue:I have an AUE engine code with Me7.1. ECU part number: 022 906 032 E. This engine was a solid coil pack wasted spark engine from UK. There seems to be no support for AUE engine turbo software, so I was looking at running a BDE/BDF ECU. Having studied the wiring diagrams here are the only differences:BDE/BDF has 6 spark trigger outputs for each coil on plugAUE has 3 spark trigger outputs for wasted spark coil packMy plan for this was to run 3 new wires in my loom and double up on the waste spark connectors on coil pack, so the BDE ECU would be firing the waste spark coil pack twice if that makes sense.BDE has dual VVT, so dual solenoids and hall sensors for both cams.For this part I need to know if anyone can shut off the exhaust VVT and hall sensor in the mapping? And just run the intake VVT? Or if it would be possible to shut off the VVT all together so there is no fault codes if that makes it easier? I have approached a few people about this but no one has been helpful. United Motorsports have even said in this thread that they are running a 12v VR6 with an AUE ECU yet were VERY abrupt in saying they couldn't help me.I am looking at the AFP Mk4 12v VR6 software that they got in USA, so ME7.1 with DBW but no VVT as it was 12V. My issue is the crank sensor wheel on the AFP is on the Rear cam but the crank sensor wheel on AUE is on the front cam, although the patterns look the same..... Not sure about the synching. I would be perfectly happy with no VVT as you say, the turbo will fill the void perfectly.Here are some pics to see what I mean:AUE Engine:AFP 12v VR6 Engine: Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Yeah no problem, all info is worthy info in my book!I've seen your posts on the other forums and we established Vince is the main man for you on this occasion. I am still learning a lot about these 24V engines (some of it the hard way) as I muddle through my project, so apologies for any misinformation I may have said about the AUE engine and it's VVT. Is there no option of your customer swapping to a BDE/BDF? Did you get that engine in NZ? People in the UK are generally only interested in the R32 flavour of 24V, so the BDEs tend to go for peanuts. I'm just thinking out loud that as there is already software available for that engine, it may be easier in the long run, especially where future updates are required? Link to post Share on other sites
MaidenVR6 26 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Two AUE Bora V6 4Motion in Sweden that run mk4 R32 engines with stock AUE harness. It was all bolt on, exept the exhaust flap and coding the keys. One off them bought a mk4 R32 from UK, and drove it home to Sweden. Swapped both cars.Ridiculous pricing on cars in the UK. I dont see why everybody isnt driving around in 996 Turbos. Same price as a 2003 R32 in Norway AUE/R32 swap pictures....http://www.garaget.org/mypage/gallery.php?user=146687&album=16592 Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 They are running R32s with an AUE ECU? Cars like the R32 have little value over here because of the stupid cost of fuel. We don't have cheap E85 like you guys. martingraham 1 Link to post Share on other sites
cbmotorsport 0 Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 bit of a thread hijack, but looking for a piece of advice from those who have built turbo vr6 lumps before, in my experience tubular pulse manifolds are best for quicker turbo spool up, so what would people recommend ? either build a SS tubular or buy a cast one. help appreciated Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Not worth it under 400hp on the VR6 imo. The cost outweighs the benefits. Link to post Share on other sites
michael5556 247 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Any updates kev? Link to post Share on other sites
jims13 6 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 i do think im correct in saying he has long since sold the car ! michael5556 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Daverse 175 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Yeah i thought that! unless he's got some new and highly interesting build going on? Link to post Share on other sites
michael5556 247 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 ah yes. lol i remember now. thanks guys Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted March 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Yeah the Corrado went in September and it had a n'asp R32 lump in it. Having done all I could to the car, I felt it was time to move on :-)Got a MK4 R32 now, so the traction and 02M box are there as standard, if I decide to turbo it :-). I miss tweaking and turbos, so it's more likely a when rather if, lol! Link to post Share on other sites
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