DIY turbo guide

[m12t 2]

kev do u had any pics of the oil return of the turbo to the block and do u feel any difference having it draining in to the block instead of the sump

[FishWick 21]

Sorry, no. Kind of difficult to take pictures of turbo oil and water lines without a ramp.

It's up to you where you drain back to, most people drain back to the sump, but I preferred to drain back to the block as it's neater and provides an obstruction free path back to the sump. It also gets round the driveshaft clearance issue too.

[petervr6 0]

iv tried and failed to understand alot of this thread lol i REALLY wanna know whats needed but just dont understand alot of it

your not alone there mate...

good work kev wicked thread.

[vr6newcomer 1]

well done matey, your thread is really getting me thinking, do u know much about the eip conversion?

[FishWick 21]

I know of one guy that put an EIP conversion on his Corrado and the EIP downpipe needed extensive modification to fit and the software wasn't very good either by all accounts.

EIP used to have a bad reputation regarding their customer support aswell, but they may have improved that now.

The stuff used in my conversion is proven and used by many people, particularly the manifold, which is very important. Tom (IBIVR) can supply those. It's a proper RHD manifold and extremely strong and flows well.

[gav_113 0]

I was running 8 psi on the standard management too' date=' worked really well actually!

Currently I'm on 11psi but the sky's the limit really if you build the engine and trans to take it. Bill Schimmel in the states runs 40psi of boost on some of his engines...I think that equates to about 850 [American!']whp.

He's done or two 1000hp VR6 engines too, but for the drag strip. That would be totally useless on the road as you'd need huge slicks to get the power down and solid rear suspension....so not really wise for the road :-)

when u say std mangement do u mean that u havent chpped or remapped ur std ecu?? didnt think it would run with out a remap? interesting...

[FishWick 21]

Yes, standard management, injectors etc etc

You need an uprated fuel pump and a boost dependant Fuel Regulator.

If you go over 8psi you'll need a recalibrated MAF table and / or larger housing (4") but it's not much work for someone to rejig a MAF table and send a chip out to try.

It works on fuel pressure as opposed to flow, so you need to make sure your fuel lines can handle 100psi.

Works perfectly and the cheapest way possible to get boost fuelling.

[IbiVR 0]

doesnt take ignition into account though.... Will work better on OBD2 than OBD1 as the ecu is cleverer, and on part throttle boost the ecu will be trying to pull out fuelling to get stoich mixture. It does work, but its a little unrefined...

Tom.

[gav_113 0]

ok cheers for dat, it would only be a quick fix to get the car running, and to run in block etc so dont want alot of boost, and in time i will change injectors and MAF housing (4'') and get a live map done...

[FishWick 21]

Exactly why I did it. To test the water before doing the big stuff! Haven't tried this method OBD1 but as said already, OBD2 is fine with it.

Yep, C2 42lb maps have the lambda problem on part throttle boost.

It's far from unrefined. Works a treat and engine smoother than it's ever been.

[IbiVR 0]

I wouldnt have thought they do?

As you know the ECU works on a model programmed into it, therefore it knows the characteristics of the engine, ie it knows the VE, and the engine size etc, and what all the variables are. This being said, it is possible to program into it at what point you want things to happen, ie wether you want it to switch from sequential injector firing to batch firing and what input you use to switch it, when and where to switch, and so on. When you understand how this model works, then you can alter things, like open/closed loop lambda control, it can be altered on temeperature or TPS lets say (it is as standard), we can continue from this and control it with mass of air too, so you can get round the part throttle lamdba issues and stop the ecu trying to pull the fuelling up to stoich.

*Kev - not teaching you to suck eggs but i know this post is read by many, so trying to explain it best i can!

Back to the RRFPR/std code issue,

With lower boost its not so crucial for richer afr's so your unlikey to melt anything, but even so its not ideal.

The diff with OBD1 is the knock control isnt as good - OBD2 is much faster at it and can pull more, and also does it on each cylinder seperatly, so the OBD1 ECU wont be as good with the timing under boost.

I'm not saying dont do it, I know you had good results with it, just I wouldnt advocate it as a long term solution with the std code in there, and dont expect the top end of the BHP figures for the boost you'll run.

But your right it will work, and will get you going while you test and finish the rest of the installation.

Tom.

[gav_113 0]

right cheers tom, i may even convert to obd2.. coz it seems a little better..i just didnt want the car off the road for to long thats why i said about running std mangement.. least i know where i stand with it now..thanks

[Phat VR6 3]

OMG. Im only 21 and havent got rich parents to boro money from so im shaged.

I was going to piease together the parts for a turbo as i went along and try to do it for about £2500, £3000 but i think i might just wait till ive got £10.000 or a reliable job to get a loan for that amount after reading this.

So i think a turbo might be coming when im abit older. Say 27 or somthink. shit shit shit. So without going turbo what BHP can i exspect. Im talking 3.0 high compression. cams big valve head (athought they cost about a £1000 :@ )

Im starting to hate this cus i wont be happy till my dubs fully smoothed shiney and a reliable 500bhp (not box)

500bhp been the hardest part of the hole thing

Cheers people

[FishWick 21]

At your age you will also need a loan for the insurance if you turbo you car!

It doesn't need to cost £10K. The way I've gone about it is expensive for sure, but you can do it a lot cheaper. You don't need a schimmel chargecooler, you don't need a GT turbo, you don't need forged pistons or increased capacity, you don't need a standalone etc etc. IBIVR has shown you can do it for around the £3K mark, perhaps less.

It just depends on what you want from the conversion.

For the cost of going N/A 3.0, big valve head etc etc it's not really worth it imo. Around 230hp is the most you'll get.

1mm bigger valves to compliment 83mm pistons and port matching is a good move, but best with a turbo.

[Phat VR6 3]

Ha Ha.

You speek a few words and im fully addicted again.

Has ibivr made a tread showing the parts he used and how his done it. Dont surpose you could post me a link to it if he has.

Cheers tom

[stevegolfvr6 0]

just sat and read the whole thread and gotta admit you've done a very good job tbh, have you had a final map yet ? if so what figures did you get and did you video it? would be very intrested to see how it performs around a track and at pod aswell so we can can put it into perspective of how quick this beast really is.

just a few things id have done diffrently but thats the whole point in modifying every1's got there way of doin things lol

once again well done on the conversion mate

[FishWick 21]

Phat VR6 - I don't think he has mate.

Black Magic - Thanks, I appreciate the kind words :-)

It's not had a final map mate, I'm doing that myself on the road. If and when it 'feels' right, I'll get it dynoed to confirm. I'm constantly changing things and have a good understanding of the DTA, so seems silly to pay someone £40 an hour to map it when I can do it myself. It won't be 100% spot on, but on the dyno you just can't tune some of the load sites like you can on the road, so all the low rpm stuff should be close, if not spot on. Full throttle stuff my wideband trims for me and timing is tuned by using some cans connected to the rear knock sensor.....but it's best doing WOT stuff on the dyno as you can increase the load and really give it a work out.

I have had a couple of maps done at Stealth and it was making 330hp @ 8psi. God knows what it's making now, but doesn't feel far off the mark tbh.

I didn't have track or 1/4 mile work in mind when I started the project as neither interest me tbh. I'd rather build a dedicated car for track work and it wouldn't be a VW, that's for sure!!

I'm always open to suggestions, so feel free to elighten me to your way of thinking :-)

[Phat VR6 3]

Your right. I hadn't,

but i have now. Wont be asking any more silly questions.

Sorry about that chap

[VRmonster 1]

hey kev. what you using to map timing? monitor wise i mean, i was thinking of setting up a knock sensor/phono lead thing into my head unit and use that, but i think engine noise will be too prominant. and what should i be looking for on the egt side of things as ive got myself a sensor and im assuming i can monitor timing adjustments with egt readings. could do with some advice on this side of things. cheers.

[FishWick 21]

Hi mate. I have no knock sensing. When on the dyno I have a copper tube bolted to the rear knock sensor hole and we put a stethoscope down there and listen for det. Forged pistons have a similar resonance to detonation, so you have to trust your judgement and press on with the timing :-)

I run 25-27 degrees on boost and up to 37 degrees off boost. I use MAP sensing for boost compensation which at 1 bar boost takes 5% timing out, at 1.1 bar it takes -7% out and at 1.3bar, it takes out -10% and so on.

I removed my head after 8000 miles of this timing level and the piston crowns are perfect, no signs of det at all :-)

EGTs..... I see around 400 at idle, 550ish on a 50-60mph cruise, 650-700 around 80-90mph and 750-820ish on boost. The figures vary from engine to engine, depending on tune, but treat them as a guide. They should stay stable when cruising, climb very quickly under boost and level off. What you're looking for is any sudden drop or increase in temperature away from normal under boost. Too much EGT is usually a sign of over rich fuel and / or too little timing. A sudden drop in EGT usually indicates a reduction in flame temperature, caused by detonation. In this case, cylinder head temp would rise very rapidly, but there aren't really any decent CHT sensors that react fast enough as the sensor is on the head, rather than in it like the EGT sensor.

[407BHP VR 2]

Exactly why I did it. To test the water before doing the big stuff! Haven't tried this method OBD1 but as said already' date=' OBD2 is fine with it.

Yep, C2 42lb maps have the lambda problem on part throttle boost.

It's far from unrefined. Works a treat and engine smoother than it's ever been.

[/quote']

Whats this about a C2 lambda problem on part throttle boost ?

I run C2 software and have had no problem atall !

the only issue i had was on the dyno it was a touch lean about 4k revs but no so lean as to be worried .

The dyno operator said it was a touch leaner than he would of mapped it but still fine and also said it was the best

american software "chips" he had seen !

[407BHP VR 2]

And as for schimmel performance i bought a few bits off them when i built my engine !

ARP

diff bolts,head studs,rod bolts

Cam chain kit

VF engine and gear box mounts after two weeks the gearbox mount fell to bits, when i emailed them about it they would not return my email

[FishWick 21]

C2 have corrected the lambda issue. The C2 code is good if you're willing to import a US ECU, or send them yours.

I and several other UK customers have had no problems at all with the Schimmels.

VF are nothing to do with Schimmel performance and I wouldn't use them on my car.

What are you trying to imply by mentioning that?

[407BHP VR 2]

C2 have corrected the lambda issue. The C2 code is good if you're willing to import a US ECU' date=' or send them yours.

I and several other UK customers have had no problems at all with the Schimmels.

VF are nothing to do with Schimmel performance and I wouldn't use them on my car.

What are you trying to imply by mentioning that?

[/quote']

That they where great when they where taking my money but as soon as i had a problem they did not want to know !

And who said they have anything to do with schimmel ? All i said is i bought them from there who do you want me to contact ?

[407BHP VR 2]

I wouldn't use them on my car.

What are you trying to imply by mentioning that?

I wouldn't use a charge cooler but thats not an issue is it !

All they are is a big heat sink in traffic and once warm take a good while to cool down again !

On the strip they are great if packed with ice or dry ice but on the road with englands traffic they are a waste of time !