Kinetic motorsports turbo kit.

[i-ninja 0]

Another turbo thread! lol.

Has anyone seen kinetics turbo kits available in the us? They are priced very well..

http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/

The guys over on vwvortex seem to rave about these kits also.

I am considering getting one at that price, What would need to be done to get them fitted to a rhd car? I am not a mechanic but do have a few friends that are so fitting etc shouldnt be a problem once I work out how its done.

All help apreciated,

Stu.

Oh and before anyone says, no I dont want a charger.. Lol.

[IbiVR 0]

Its a good kit, but wont fit RHD car. Manifold wont fit, so therefor you replace that, your pipes are no good etc.

It is a good spec'd kit though.

The spec of the turbo is good - its a good basis, but dont get the kit. Price up the turbo, wastegate, injectors, dv etc, and use the parts to do a custom build around a RHD manifold and you wont go far wrong.

Kevs DIY turbo guide is a good source of info.

Tom.

[i-ninja 0]

Thanks mate, Sounds like its going to be more costly that way..

You know of any people selling rhd manifolds? Price would also be good. I dont know much about engines and after looking at that thread feel well out of my depth! I could do with a list of parts I would need then I could buy them etc before asking someone to fit it.

[VRTime 0]

I was looking at the Kinetic stuff some time back, and knowing that the manifold wouldnt fit I mailed them for a price minus the bits I didnt need, from memory they quoted me about $2k for the kit minus

Manifold

Downpipe

pipework

I ended up sourcing bits myself in the end, takes time and its no cheaper TBH, but atleast you dont have the outlay in one hit

G

[IbiVR 0]

Which version was it, if its the intercooled 10psi+ one thats pretty good.

Its a tried and tested kit, with good components.

So lets say after tax/import £1500 for that lot. You'll need to set back maybe £200 for a downpipe (unless you make it yourself) £200 for pipework/silicon, and some code.

I also source all the bits seperatly as we can do different versions and taylor turbos, pipework, coolers etc as required to suit the car for purpose.

As I keep saying, easily possible for £2-2.5k

Tom.

[i-ninja 0]

Cheers for the replys guys,

This is what the kit consists of..

- Rotomaster (Kinetic Motorsport Custom Spec) T3/T4 Oil Cooled Turbocharger (500hp Capable)

- Kinetic Motorsport VR6 Manifold

- TiAL 38mm Wastegate

- 2.5" Stainless Steel Downpipe

- 3" Stainless Steel Intake

- Braided Oil Lines and Oil Pan with fittings

- Reuseable Air Filter

- Kinetic Motorsport Silicone Hoses and Stainless Steel Clamps

- 36# Injectors

- C2 Motorsports Chip Software

- This kit runs 6psi of boost

What wouldnt I need? I know I would need the manifold or downpipe.

That is the stage 1 kit by the way!

I will then email the company for the parts I would require for a quote.

Would the software work?

Stuart.

[IbiVR 0]

No. US spec C2 software wont run properly on uk cars. Were missing all sorts of emissions stuff, and the obd2 ecu is different entirly to uk one. It would run, but not properly.

Thats the non intercooled kit, personally i wouldnt bother with a non intercooled turbo. not really worth the effort. However the intercooled kit would require mods to the piping anyway as the turbo would be in the wrong place.

You could get the kit minus manifold, downpipe, software, then make up your cooler piping and get a cooler, rhd mani, get it mapped.

Or just price up a turbo, wastegate and injecoters as well. would be cheaper...

Tom.

[i-ninja 0]

So your saying rather than getting them to price up the parts that I would need just buy all parts seperately?

Any uk companys that can supply the parts I would need? Also do you know if vince at stealth is able nto map a turbo?

Stuart.

[IbiVR 0]

To me it makes more sense to add up the individual parts you would need fro mthe kit, rather than pay a kit price minus some bits. If that makes sense. all your really getting from there is the turbo, wastgate, oil lines and injectors.

Kinetic do all the bits seperatly, you might find its cheaper, but the main thing is you can tweak it slightly, 440 injectors instead maybe, bigger turbo. Just gives you more versatility

Remember what ever price you get to you have to add 20% for vat and duty - theres no real way round it anymore, you will 99% end up paying it, so worth factoring in.

Tom

[i-ninja 0]

Thanks for all the help tom!

You realy do know your turbo stuff.

I will have a look around and see what I can find.

Just a couple of quick questions..

That kit doesnt include a bov, if I wanted one are they easy to fit? Also what is the diifrence between a wastegate and bov? You can tell I really am not engine friendly lol.

Also what kind of psi would be safe to run before lowering the compresion? Or would you sugest doing that anyway?

Regards,

Stuart.

[IbiVR 0]

no probs, glad to help.

A wastegate bypasses exhaust away from the turbo, so you set it to 6 psi, and when you get there it diverts the exhuast to sto pthe turbo spinning any faster. This is what limits your boost.

A BOV sits in the inlet path. When you shut the throttle the turbo is still spinning and now pressurising your pipwork etc. This isnt great for the thrust bearing in the turbo as the blades now have alot of resistance.

On cars with a MAF its best to use a diverter style one, so the metered air doesnt vanish from the system which would mean you run really rich when you change gear or back off - leads for jerky gearchanges and sometimes staliing on overun. something like the forge ones for 1.8T's are ideal.

In short - wastegate is 100% necessary, without it you will run the max pressur eof the turbo into youe engine and it will die.

BOV is a good idea to protect the turbo and for better running, not absolutly necessary for lower boost pressures. But i would.

General consensus is up to around 8psi on standard compression. Personally i think its worth doing in the build, just pop a spacer in there. its done then if you want to up the boost later.

Tom.

[i-ninja 0]

Thanks, im starting to see light at the end of the tunnel now, Is it possible to run a mafless setup as some charged boys do?

Also what is a Wideband kit? Does this have something to with airflow? Its about now when a faq thread is needed! lol.

Also any pics of a completed turbo uk vr6 engine bay?

Stuart.

[FishWick 21]

On cars with a MAF its best to use a diverter style one' date=' so the metered air doesnt vanish from the system which would mean you run really rich when you change gear or back off - leads for jerky gearchanges and sometimes staliing on overun. something like the forge ones for 1.8T's are ideal.

[/quote']

What about a twin piston one claiming to be "Designed for Mass air engines"?

Does the recirced air back into the intake before, or after the MAF? I can't remember! That method will make my pipework a complete pain the arse, so I've just gone for a blow off for now.

[IbiVR 0]

Twin piston ones are better as it stops them sucking air in when not on boost, but will still dump air to atmos causing rich condition at gearchange/overun.

Re-circ air is to go in after the maf, as it has already been metered once.

Tom.

[FishWick 21]

OK, thanks for that. I don't like the sound of the BOV consequences so I'll change over to recirc.

[i-ninja 0]

Right then folks I think i know the basics now. Is it possible to run the air filter to the compressor without the maf etc? If I did this then got vince at stealth to do me a custom map would that work?

If the car doesnt have a maf then a normal bov would work yeh?

Also my car is a 1995 obd1 if that helps..

Stu.

[IbiVR 0]

I wouldnt recomend a mafless setup unless you go for a map based stand alone set up. Having said that some people on here run mafless setups with some success.

MAF is the only way the ecu knows how much load its under.

Tom.

[i-ninja 0]

Thanks,

So if I was to choose a mafless setup it is possible to get a custom map for it?

[IbiVR 0]

Why ditch the maf? i dont get it.

Tom.

[i-ninja 0]

Im considering the different options available..

I heard that some people without the maf on a sc car get better performance, Is that the case with a turbo?

Sorry for all the q's btw lol.

[IbiVR 0]

Vince at stealth has had trouble mapping some cars with a maf, in these cases he has removed it and mapped round it. Its not so much better performance, more that it didnt run right with it.

In these cases he's had some success and its got the car going with good results.

Trouble is the MAF is the indication of load on the engine. The map he does is right for that car under those conditions (temp etc). Theres enough in it to adapt to an extent.

Thing is with turbo cars if you want more boost you can have it, sc is more tricky.

If you have no MAF the ecu doesnt know about any changes to your engine - its open loop - ther is no feedback to tell the ecu whats happening, so it cannot adjust.

Say your running 10psi. then you decode you want to run 12 psi - no maf = remap. Maf based system sees the extra air and fuels accordingly.

If you get into gear based boost limiting - ie you can run 10 psi in 1st and 2nd and 20 in 3rd 4th 5th so you get power but help with traction low down - all this sort of stuff cannot be done with a mafless system.

SC isnt so much a problem as boost is more set, and the engine parameters are more fixed.

Tom.

[FishWick 21]

Correct, MAFless was done to fix engines that wouldn't run at all, or wouldn't run very well.

Not all engines liked it. I was lucky and had a good engine that didn't mind losing the MAF. All you lose in the real world is a slight loss of throttle response and that's it.

Also bear in mind that the MAF and filter on S/C cars hang down in the inner wing and therefore are subject to water and dirt ingress, not to mention oil and water from the Crankcase ventilation system dripping onto the MAF wire/film - destroying it in a few months, sometimes weeks.

That was another reason for dumping the MAF.

Yet another reason was the 5V MAF clipping. The ECU simply didn't understand the rate of air going in against the injector rate (shorter cycles on the reds) and shut off the injectors at 4000rpm when booting it. VF's solution was to supply a voltage limiter, but it crept and still went over 5V.

I understand Vince has got round this clipping problem now and is reverting back to MAFs again.....but that still doesn't solve the problem of the MAF being exposed to the elements. It's better to have it in the engine bay, but not possible with a Vortech.

[i-ninja 0]

Thanks guys!!

Looks like I will keep the maf then.

A couple more q's now folks, How do you go about making the downpipe fit the standard system? Say if I used a 3" downpipe then joined it on to the de cat/cat for mot surely that would mean reducing from 3" down to 2.25"? Think thats the standard bore sive of the vr, please correct me if im wrong! Or would having a custom exhaust made up with a 3" bore be a better option? But then what to do about mot and cats etc...?

Stuart.

[apd 0]

have to pick up on that last comment kev.running a v2sq with a maf after the sc.runs spot on.obd1 with a shit load of mods.wanting to go 12psi[8.5psi at the moment].but don't want to spend on remap until its perfected? its been on stealth rollers twice in the last couple of years making 303 and 317bhp.

[IbiVR 0]

you can mate it up no problem. Mine is a 3" stright through system, but you can mate it to a std fitment system (although i wouldnt reccomened a stock vr exhaust)..

Once the exhasust gas has travelled a couple of feet its slowed down a fair bit. Bigger is better, but a 2.25 system will still flow enough for good power.

Tom.