purpledragon 0 Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 No probs mate, gonna have to get a stock item for now and upgrade later. Keep us posted. Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 LOL i didnt like the idea of the spades just sitting there in the sockets of the coils either so i have ordered them also He he.... well these were a good purchase They come with long bolts too and a rubber spacer per pack seal the gap between coil and mount. They do make for a very bulky coilpack though, LOL! I reckon turning the bracket upside down is the way to go. Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 LOL i havent recieved my 8870s yet i put them on a slightly longer delivery i didnt see the point in getting them on a 2 day delivery and sitting in the box in the hallway.But they should be here friday or monday of next week i am going to use a 1 ohm resistor and the vw ICM just to see can it be done if the worst comes to the worst i can always buy new coils LOL Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Yeah I got a mallory variable ballast resistor, 0.7 ohms when cold and 1.2 ohms or something when hot to use with mine but I won't need it with the standalone. I would prefer the remote amp though to stop the ECU running so hot..... Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I was made happy earlier on today the postman had some pieces for me, now i see what you meant about them being bulky LOL Link to post Share on other sites
IbiVR 0 Posted April 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Yo,Sorry not been on for ages - (new site is nice btw).I'm reeaaly busy with work at the mo. I dont think i'm gonna have time to pursue this much further. Certainly I think the brackets not going to happen, which is a shame cos i dont like the gruven one.Glad to see some of you are cracking on with this - I do think its a worthwhile mod, although through the extensive testing we've done I'm not happy enough about the reliability of the coils to put my name to a full package.(that said - i still run it and will continue to do so, just keep your stock pack and leads in your boot to get you home just in case...Re the amp, It seems to run fine, but havent put enough miles on it to be 100% (although i'm still up past where ive seen stock icm's fail) Trouble is once i'm happy i doubt i'll have time to make them up.Users on vortex seem to be having very few problems when used with the ballast resistor - my suggestion would be to wire them up with that.If and when i can offer the amp as an upgrade i'll let you know - but dont hold your breath - sorry.I am still about and will be on the forum, happy to help where i can with turbo q's and anything else, but i'm just gonna have to let this one drop due to work/personal comitments.Regards,Tom. Link to post Share on other sites
cadguy77 0 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 that's a shame tom, thanks for all the help and advise thus far mate Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Yeah just as cadguy says thanks for your help tom Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Cheers for bringing this upgrade to our attention in the first place Tom, shame you can't pursue it though :-(What do you think the problem is? The coils themselves or the way they're fired? I would have thought the GM cars they were designed for would exhibit the same issues if the coils themselves were dodgy?I have the same thoughts as you, I'm reluctant to run the MSDs if they're unreliable.If it's just the amplifier that's the problem, would something like this work? - http://www.haltech.com/ignmodule.htmCheers Link to post Share on other sites
IbiVR 0 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Hi Kev,Yeah that should run them by the looks of it. Current limiting to 9 amps is perhaps a little high, but the amp is obviosly ok at 9 amps, the coils should be ok. I'd give it a go and if you have trouble put the ballast resistor in too.Not cheap at £70odd, but not too bad.Not entirly sure as to the cause as the failures i've seen have been different, The amp is definalty a weakpoint, and so far all looks good now were not on teh stock amp. weather the current limiting is flakey on the std amp and overdrives the coils perhaps...Am still runnign the amp and coils so will of course update this thread with any problems i have with the current setup. Fingers crossed though...Tom. Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 Cheers Tom. My preference is an external amp because the DTA gets mighty hot if you use it's own coil amps and as it's in the glovebox, that could be a problem longterm.The other problem with Standalones and coils that are an unknown entity is that when a coil pops, it tends to take a coil (or injector, or both!) driver with it. The VW ECU being offboard amped has a good level of resilience there, stick another coil on and off you go.So I need to get this 100% first as I can't afford to have the ECU sent off every month for new coil drivers.I would like to try one of your amps if possible - on my head be it - so if you're interested, PM me.Whilst browsing the DTA forum, the Ford Zetec coils seem to get rave reviews as they also have a huge spark and are very reliable and cheap as chips, so that's another avenue to explore. Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Hmmmmm a lot to be considered kev .i have just bought a haltech dumb ignition control module triple channel of course http://www.haltech.com/ignmodule.htm (thanks for the link kev) 2 days delivery then gonna try getting it together Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Good man!!If you don't have any joy with the Haltech, MoTeC do amps aswell mate and they are pretty much the Rolls Royce of Engine electronics.Keep me posted chap as I can't run the MSDs yet as I'm running the new engine in, so need a reliable spark for 1500 miles or so.You probably don't want to hear this, but Bill Schimmel says the stock pack is good for 40psi of boost..... but that's not to say we can't enjoy the improvements off boost aswell ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I now have everything to go ahead with this conversion LOL but i have another problem the car wont start well technically it will and run for a second and cuts out i have had it on vagcom and no faults found. I was on the phone to vince last week for about 30 mins trying other things but no joy. So the car was brought to a main dealers last tuesday and they have never seen a vr6 golf with obd2 electronics not starting and not showing any fault codes, i am gonna collect the car today and send the ecu to vince for testing. So i will be delayed again :-( Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Strange! That's normally an immobiliser fault, but you'd get the usual "Engine start blocked by immobiliser" fault code.Do you have an alarm with an immobiliser built in? It could be that immobiliser that's causing it?A mate had the same problem on his S/C'd OBD1 Corrado.....would run for a minute then stop dead. Vince has just fixed that actually, it was the cold start map! Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Hmmmm Vince is sorting something out for me at the moment and the alarm has been removed 3 weeks ago. I have the haltech icm it was delivered last friday i cant wait to fit them msd coils now that i have everything to do the conversion murphys law LOL Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Just resurrecting this thread because I fitted my MSD coils today.I ran them straight from the DTA management with no ballast resistor. I chanced it because DTA build a lot of resilience into their ECUs and can run a wide variety of coils and injectors no problem.I'm running them at 2500ms with Brisk D12S silver spark plugs and good quality 8mm silicon leads. Plugs gapped at the stock 00.28". With no changes to the map what so ever, I fired it up and it started a lot quicker than it normally does, so that's a good start then.Whilst revving it when cold (I have no idle valve) to keep the revs up, I immediately noticed how much smoother and responsive the engine was.Onto the road test then and during warm up, it was massively more responsive and smoother, particularly at low revs.Once warmed up, the idle quality was so smooth it was like someone had removed the engine and balanced & blue printed it. The difference in idle quality compared to the stock pack is MASSIVE.Pick up in the lower rpms off idle is also massively improved.I ran the car for an hour or so in torrential rain, no miss fires at any rpm and the DTA didn't even get warm, which indicates the coils are both water proof and easy to drive, in terms of current draw.The next test is to see how long the coils and the plugs last, so I want to get a couple of K into them and then I'll start opening the plug gaps up to get a bigger spark.On boost, the motor is stronger and smoother.This is definitely worth doing, but for engines using the factory management, there's still the issue of the standard ignition amp, so it'll will be good to see what VR6Boy finds with his Haltech amp.I'm naturally very dubious and sceptical of mods like this, but it bloody works!! It demonstrates that the VW coilpack is literally just about up to the job and no more. With the MSDs you get a feeling that every scrap of fuel is being burnt..... Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Wow good to hear kev still havent got sorted out yet just waiting on the ecu back from vince everything was tested on another vr6 and was perfect the socket was removed and refitted just to rule a faulty connection out so just waiting on a delivery and assemble it then we are off.I have got a spare ecu also thats getting a socket installed at the moment so i have a spare Kev when you get the chance stick up a few pics of them fitted Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Will do mate. I took a picture of them this morning before setting off for work, but will need to upload it to my webspace so that i can link to it. Can't do that from work!!Seems like a really worthwhile mod. I might stock up on spark plugs and spare coils from the states whilst the dollar is still weak! Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Will do mate. I took a picture of them this morning before setting off for work' date=' but will need to upload it to my webspace so that i can link to it. Can't do that from work!!Seems like a really worthwhile mod. I might stock up on spark plugs and spare coils from the states whilst the dollar is still weak! [/quote']Cool idea kev take advantage Link to post Share on other sites
IbiVR 0 Posted May 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Good to hear your opinion kev - see its not just me whos rates em... It is a startling improvement imo - as i said at the very beggining of this thread its a worthwhile mod, even with any power increase aside.Start opening up your plug gaps a little, you should find you can get in to the high 30's without problem. Not sure on your plugs, but the BKR7E's seem to perform well and last with the msd's.Bigger gap and stronger spark means you can run more ignition. You may find that you can tweak your ignition map a little now, which will get you more power.Course on stock management it'd do it for you... Get some pics up! What leads did you use in the end?Tom. Link to post Share on other sites
FishWick 21 Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Startling is a good description!! When I cranked it over and ran it down the road for the first time, I was in a two fold state of shock:1) that it actually worked - because of all the controversy surrounding the ballast resistor and stock ICMand 2) the HUGE improvement to drivability! For the same throttle inputs, the response is more immediate, smoother and a lot stronger! Awesome mod!! Cheers for recommending it!Timing....LOL, yeah I do miss OBD2's creature comforts, but the DTA has it's plus points too. I'm running close to the edge in the midrange boost timing as it is, 20 degrees, so I'll try the gapping first and see what happens. I can always stick a degree or 2 in the compensation maps and see what happens.Some guys in America are running .060" gaps! Can't be force fed with that gap surely?!The main recommendation seems to be .040", which is more or less what you've recommended.I knocked the dwell down to 2000 micro seconds at lunchtime and it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but that's cool because it means the coils are running shorter pulses, so should last a bit longer in theory. MSD don't like putting any more than 2500 through them. Any idea what the factory dwell time is?Leads - I'm using Schimmel's leads, which he cuts and binds for the Short runner intake.....but for the stock coilpack though, so they could do with shortening down! I'll get some more GM ends and tidy them up at some point. Pics....It's pretty tight for clearance in my application! I like the Gruven bracket as it moves the coils away from the head and therefore shouldn't suffer with as much heatsoak as the standard coils do.Moderator edit by: cadguy Link to post Share on other sites
muggz357 0 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 hey guys i need some info . I'm having my mechanic do the upgrade for my 98 glx what do i need in coils leads resistor or other stuff . by the way this will run on stock computer too Link to post Share on other sites
VR6BOY 2 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Ok you need are as follows Msd coils x3 part number 8870 Msd lead ends x 1 pack part number 8850 Msd 1 ohm ballast resistor not sure of part number and a mounting bracket from www.gruvenparts.comyou can use your own plug leads and change the ends for msd ones or replace them i had a link and it doesnt seem to be working Link to post Share on other sites
muggz357 0 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 right on so is this set up pretty sturdy it seems like you guys did a little bit of R&D on alot of components and stuff . Link to post Share on other sites
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