Supercharging FAQ

[rodney 17]

As I/we are going through a group buy I thought it may be worth adding a slightly more comprehensive guide to fitting or at least deciding and selecting which charger to fit and what else to think of through that process.

I hope others will add to it and the guys who can do things on here will add it to the FAQ list...

Ok so heres my starter for 10.

Which charger?

There appears to be 2 main choices in charger purchase and whilst both work it will be down to personal choice and possibly what group buy is in place that year.

The web links for information on the main 2 are

http://www.vf-engineering.com/

(my group buy)

Stage 1 - 6Psi

Stage 2 - 8Psi

Stage 3 - 10PSi

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/

(I dont know anything in detail on these I just know others have them fitted)

There is a guide on the members section on how to fit the system. (VF)

The systems state they need to be run in for between 250-500miles.

A remap is required after fitment.

If you you go stage 2 or 3 the easiet way is not to fit the red tops until run in and then remap as the remap puts the engine through its paces

You should think about your cat as the s/c will eat the Cat over time due to the additional gas flow/heat etc.

Engine mounts........

IBIVR has got some new ones he is developing and should work fine and include bolts which typically bend as time goes on. Also cheaper

VT are the origional option and they suggest the following:-

"got my quote from Vibra and thier recomendations were as follows:

We make both Fast Road and Competition mounts but some people prefer to use Comp mounts on the road - and put up with the extra harshness. However what we have found is that VR6 is not too harsh with a Comp front mount. Stealth regularly fit Comp front mounts to VR6's. Therefore we would suggest using a Comp front mount (especially in view of the mod you are intending to carry out) with Fast Road mounts at the rear and gearbox end. Part Nos. and prices for Mk3 mounts : -

Font mount VAG960MX £137.09

RH Rear mount VAG885M £65.67

LH G/Box mount VAG875m £67.16

Prices are plus carriage and VAT

Some people suggest only the rear needs changing however it is mounted to the subframe it can induce harshness into the car, if a full comp is fitted here!

There are things to do which can aid with reliability lifecycle of the system. Water injection. This adds a mix of water and methanol to help reduce the knock count on the cam sensors. This is more noticable in the summer when temperatures will be higher. (should drop emmissions in theory also)

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

System 1s s all that is required

http://coolingmist.com/

System 150 is required

Both again appear to work. The main decision I see it is

a) cost and location.

Cooling mist is cheaper and has a larger pump which is difficult to mount in the engine bay due to its size. However if you are going to put a setperate tank for the water in the boot then this works well as the pump is self priming which the aquamist is not. (without modifications) (Note water tank may become pressurised).

The aquamist seems to be more advanced and is a lot smaller and suits fitment in the engine bay using the washer bottle.

I think it is important to add a float sensor for level detection to ensure no damage occours. There are comprehensive write ups on their sites.

In order to only fill the tank up when you fill up the petrol tank you are looking to have a water tank in the region of 5-10% of the fuel tank capacity. So as the VR6 tank is 60litres to the brim (as I understand it) then something in the 5litre range should be great!

There are discussions on retarding the timing when fitting these systems. I do not see this as a requirement at this time!

Clutches...

Well as I understand it the standard OEM stuff is good for about 285BHP.

There are several makes which seem to raise their heads. Ranging from just £79 through to £300. The OEM stuff is the cheap end and the other brands mentioned are LUK (VR6OC members do not seem fans) Sachs (VR6OC seem to be fans) then on to the expensive ends Helix which all like but £300 ...

I have not found out yet if the action is progressive enough to drive around town or you are like the classic farrari F50 with the ceramic clutch who needs 100ft in front to move (sorry Launch) and a leg like Arnie to operate. Which makes city driving fun!

There are others available and crop up (Ebay etc) but these seem to be the mainstay so far!

Zorsts.....

Think about them as the CAT will die with the extra heat/flow etc. So when upgrading mention it to your specialist. Also if fitting a manifold the ones on ebay will take offers so take a chance and grab a bargin worked for me - off the advice of others here. I got a much better price than the members buy price!

OK that's it so far I am still looking at other areas so please add as you see fit

I did think of adding that the gearbox is good for 350BHP so no mods required there!

Cheers

[VR6Pete 1,455]

Very informative thread, I think I will move this into the FAQ section!

[rodney 17]

I forgot engine mounts........

IBIVR has got some new ones he is developing and should work fine and include bolts which typically bend as time goes on. Also cheaper

VT are the origional option and suggest the following:-

"got my quote from Vibra and thier recomendations were as follows:

We make both Fast Road and Competition mounts but some people prefer to use Comp mounts on the road - and put up with the extra harshness. However what we have found is that VR6 is not too harsh with a Comp front mount. Stealth regularly fit Comp front mounts to VR6's. Therefore we would suggest using a Comp front mount (especially in view of the mod you are intending to carry out) with Fast Road mounts at the rear and gearbox end. Part Nos. and prices for Mk3 mounts : -

Font mount VAG960MX £137.09

RH Rear mount VAG885M £65.67

LH G/Box mount VAG875m £67.16

Prices are plus carriage and VAT

Some people suggest only the rear needs changing however it is mounted to the subframe it can induce harshness into the car, if a full comp is fitted here!

[FishWick 21]

No you didn't, engine mount info in the first post ;-)

I would advise that the fast road Vibratechnics gearbox mounts are cr@p though. They're good for a month and then go all floppy. Use the Comp spec or a solid rubber mount from a MK2/MK3 Golf diesel.

Be aware that transmission whine increases massively with the comp gearbox mount, but the payoff is far superior shift quality compared to other mounts I've used.

For those without A/C, pay particular attention to the pulley alignment on the idler bracket assembly that comes with the 8psi + kit. In most cases, the idler needs spacing out with washers to get the correct alignment, otherwise the belt hangs off the edge and will strip itself to peices.

[rodney 17]

added a bit about WI tank capcity!!!

[rodney 17]

Added a bit on the Clutch

[chazrad 16]

RCF, thanks for this. Very informative. I did not know about poss damage to cat as a result of supercharging.

My Stg 2 'charger should be arriving shortly (off the back of the GB on here!! Aquamist and an oil cooler will go on as well. Definitely worth it to ensure longevity.

[rodney 17]

which oil cooler you gonna use? I was just starting to look at them!

[chazrad 16]

I was looking at Mocal. Vince will fit it all for me )- not good enough at this kind of thing) and he think he sells them. He will recommend either a 13 or 15 row. Not sure on price...£150? plus pipework. Still unsure about whether to fit an SP short intake runner as well!?

[Radostormvr6 2]

If you go SP short runner you got to change fan setup, you need slimline fans.

[VR6Fletch 0]

Worth also mentioning that timing chains and any other engine work are best done (if needed) at the same time.

Any VR thats done roughly 100K will need new chains and tensioners. As this involves stipping most of that Right side of the engine and tranny off you may as well replace the clutch to an uprated on and in order to get that circa 275 BHP down safely and effectively a Limited Slip Differntial (LSD) is fairly essential.

While there you may as well look at the state of the head as some recommend they are rebuilt at 80K intervals. I know that others will have views on this but if the guide wear is bad or stem seals leaking worth doing this whilst its all off.

Vince will do the chains, clutch and a complete head rebuild for about £1400. Don't know what prices other firms charge.

LSD is choice of Quaife or Peloquin. Pretty much the same design (some will know of the patent war they had) and quality. Peloquin slightly cheaper and comes with £140 worth of bolts that the Quaife doesn't. So far I haven't found a UK Peloquin supplier. For an idea of price Vince is lookign at £525 (+VAT I think) for the Quaife. Fitting these babies is a job for the pros from what I can gather as it involves getting very intimate with the gearbox and some special tools. Allow £200 for fitting if it is done with clutch, chains etc.

[rodney 17]

Ok So I got my Exhaust done and I am very happy.

See links

http://www.longlife.co.uk/street/home.default.flashyes.aspx

http://www.vr6oc.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?160510

[rodney 17]

ok so heres a little bit of a chat about the after install aspects

http://www.vr6oc.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?162619.0

[rodney 17]

Right well s/c fitted and Cooling mist installed.

Here are some pictures of the install process care of Sparkz....

Please check prior to the install that you have the right belt before you start and Aircon mount. Mine had come incorrectly supplied. But Sparkz/NS resolved same day..

The Cooling mist is definatly more ermmm... robust than Aquamist! It really does need to be mounted on the boot. just too big anywhere else. The water tube wasn't long enough in my kit so the local aquarium is a good source for the pipe as it is a slightly different size to the norm.

I'll add some pictures of that another time.

Now is the hard part not placing foot to the floor until we hit run in and remap period.

You can already smell the over-fueling... Remap only a couple of weeks away

Thanks to Sparkz and his m8 for their efforts a lot of work in a weekend

[rodney 17]

OK so here are the pictures...I hope :S

1173809031_4100_FT155255_charger_fitting.pdf

[rodney 17]

When re-assembling check the current on your alternator! mine failed twice so had to replace it. not the best...

[rodney 17]

Well to my perril might I add a couple of close inspections that are needed as part of the install process...

Before you go for your remap get a vag com done. turns out I had a foobarred Lambda so luckily we managed to get one and the remap could continue!

I suppose this next is a given but you should take the opportunity to check/replace them I have had to replace my alternator and it looks like the Water pump has just failed! You need to remember that all these areas are working just a tad harder and taking the front ot the car off each time to help out with the charger removal is a pig !!!!!!!!

Finally make sure your Pipes are the correct length. I have a couple that are not quite there so I need to alter them when I can. Kinks and not quite fitting right need to be made kink free and fitting correctly! Even breather pipes have an impact now your are running pressure

[rodney 17]

Well just a note to add that things are running great. The teething problems have been overcome and the car runs as sweet as a nut. I must confess that this is the best mod I have ever had. It is worth its weight in car to see the faces on those who think a 10 year old car shouldn't go that fast. The charger really does benefit from being run in for a longer period.

I will be adding the extra oil cooler to keep the engine oil temp down to where it should be as on those hot days when playing with the right foot it can be up at 100 deg very quickly. Whilst that is not an issue I feel it will benefit everything if it runs that bit cooler and give me the reliability I want to build in to the car!

[xyber 1]

I was looking at Mocal. Vince will fit it all for me )- not good enough at this kind of thing) and he think he sells them. He will recommend either a 13 or 15 row. Not sure on price...£150? plus pipework. Still unsure about whether to fit an SP short intake runner as well!?

I just got one from THE PHIRM, 16 row setrab slim-line cooler, thermostatic sandwich plate, 2.5m of hose and all fittings and p&p £160, bargain

[kadvr6 0]

i'm getting rid of my vortech very very soon (saturday) its only going so i can afford a rotrex c30-94, i will be going for 15-18psi (6) got the chargecooler sorted.

i will let peeps no how i get on.

karl

[Radostormvr6 2]

i'm getting rid of my vortech very very soon (saturday) its only going so i can afford a rotrex c30-94' date=' i will be going for 15-18psi (6) got the chargecooler sorted.

i will let peeps no how i get on.

karl

[/quote']

Good luck Karl, its the way forward. Think i will be Rotrex or Turbo next year

[Phat VR6 3]

I want Rotrex,

[rodney 17]

Welllllll. I (the Phirm) have had fitted the 13 Bar Oil Cooler.... So here are some pointer for y'all

Right well you can get the kits from 3 main sources.

Stealth

Phirm

Mocal DIrect.

The kit is in the region of £160 + Fitting. If it's being good then litterally an hour if not allow a day...

Access from the underside really is a must to be honest. They are really quite easy to fit with a large HOWEVER!

What you are doing is removing the standard oil cooler which runs of the coolant water and replacing it with a nice new little radiator/cooler. There are a few places to physically locate it. The two fav's are the passangerside behind the fog grill. You will need to fabricate your own mounting bracket for this! Or in front of the radiator. there is a plate when you look down in front of the radiator which it can be mounted on. It is fairly thick and it is secure enough to take the weight. This is where mine is. You can also only see it if you're looking fot it especially once it gets a bit of dirt on it . THere is a gap suitable for the pipes to sneak through on thedrivers side of this plate.

There is a kit that Mocal do but you need to make sure you get all the parts. There is a new radiator/ 4 connection valves and of course the Mushroom and the thermostatic plate (Or that's what I'm calling it) Some Pipe. Recently Mocal have swaped from braided pipe to rubber pipe which just slips on (LOL)

Ok so the basic steps are as follows - First step remove all oil and be ready to replace filters etc etc

Locate and mount the radiator. Dont forget to make the connectors look pretty and point the correct way.

when you look in the front of the engine you can see a long plastic cylinder with a a few water pipes coming off it. This is where the original oil cooler is connected.

TAKE CARE IT WILL INSIST ON BREAKING !!!!!!!! it is delicate !!!!!!!!

find and remove the previous oil cooler (Expect water to P88S everyewhere). A device to stop emptying the entire system clipped onto the pipe is a bonus.

The aim is to remove the water/oil cooler connection and seal one. Then place a bolt in the other to act as a drain plug if you need it. A bit of sealant comes in to play here.

Then using the replacement/modified mushroom cap. Simply fit and then slide the cut to length pipes on (LOL)

How to put the pipes on with ease. Step 1: Have a mate with big muscles. Step 2: Send Mrs Shopping for an hour or 3. Step 3: Hold the kettle under pipes and allow steam to heat/expand pipes. Step 4: Using a rag/cloth use man with muscles to force in place over the two Lips (Caution Swearing will occour as they are tight). Step 5: Sit and bask in your manly hood and glory and hope you didn't scald yourself on the pipes

once all your pipes are on then fix musroom in final location and fill engine with oil.

Run car from cold. The engine will have something like 90PSi on start up so you should spot leaks early. run through to warm. You want the fans to kick in and ensure temp gauges are reading OK.

I was wasn't happy wih the just push on and they'll stay - so a Jubilee was used on each connection for the comfort factor.

Also don't forget to check your water system as you worked on that to.

SO I hear what happened to my temperatures.....

Well before I was always hitting 100 Deg. On the way home I managed 90 but was sat at between 80 - 88. you could see it drop as the cooler thermastat kicked in.

VERY HAPPY I AM :-d :-p

One last thing you can get a 16 bar one but I would question the need as that is more race spec and you do need to keep the oil at a resonable temperature!

Thanks the Phirm

[xyber 1]

Got mine from THE PHIRM and it arrived by 10 the next morning which was quality! Started work on it early one morning with the bumper off and jacked up for plenty of room, but as usual my car fought me all the way! But the overall improvment is a must for charged VR's

Mine is a 16 row fitted behind the passenger fogm light/vent and it sits normally at around 80 Deg and around 90-92 Deg at play

if it starts to suffer from the cold weather ill cover a section of the cooler but all seems well so far

Next up, 100cpi sports cat, providing I can find a reliable one

[rodney 17]

I got my cat from Longlife Stainless exhausts (see earlier in this thread). Give 'em a call. Made to order and has a lifetime G on it.. In the area of £200 - £250 fitted....