VR6 vs New S3

[Gibs20 0]

Whats the deal with the power to weight ratio on these cars then. Take a healthy OBD2 VR6 circa 185-190 bhp and 1155kg is it? compared to the new S3 circa 260 bhp and 1460kg. What would be the power to weight ratio of both?

Does anyone have experience with both, on the road, i want to know how much faster the S3 is going to be. I suppose torque should be taken into account also, i belive the VR is about 240nm and the S3 around 350nm thanks to its big turbo. But then will the S3 only produce that for a limited period and the VR across a wider range? hmm

Any info appreciated, cheers!

[Eat this 2]

id give the s3 the edge tbh

its a bit more power and a bit less weight than an r32 which is a bit quicker than a stock vr

[craggsy 91]

S3 for off the mark things all day long.......ideal if you like stripping. But as you say the VR will power all the way thro the rev range

[Mr_GTI 0]

had mine RR'd last saturday before being stripped for a rebuild and charger install, its an OBD2 and made 275nm at 1445 rpm, I was quite happy with that as standard.

4 wheel drive will always have the better traction off the line but think of a supercharged VR on a dry day on a lovey open road, bye bye S3!! and will cost a fraction of what an S3 or R32 would (h)

[Eat this 2]

had mine RR'd last saturday before being stripped for a rebuild and charger install' date=' its an OBD2 and made 275nm at 1445 rpm, I was quite happy with that as standard.

4 wheel drive will always have the better traction off the line but think of a supercharged VR on a dry day on a lovey open road, bye bye S3!! and will cost a fraction of what an S3 or R32 would (h)

[/quote']

you mean a bit like this?

[Jimbo 0]

Not sure about on the road performance, but the latest EVO have just done a group test with the new S3, 0-60 in 5.6 and 0-100 in 13.7, also set a new lap record on there track for a hot hatch beating the previous record of the mkV R32.

[jaysVR6 2]

You can't compaire a NA VR6 against a new S3. It's has 265bhp with over 350nm of torque at 2,500 rpm and 0-62 in 5.7 seconds! It'll kill an even slightly modified VR all day long.

Charged, well thats a different matter I raced one a while back on the ring road and managed to select 3rd instead of 5th whilst going past one (both balls out), not a nice feeling and looked a little bit of a cock!

Quick car though and the driver was a little surprised!

[VR6Pete 1,455]

You can't compaire a NA VR6 against a new S3. It's has 265bhp with over 350nm of torque at 2' date='500 rpm and 0-62 in 5.7 seconds! It'll kill an even slightly modified VR all day long.

Charged, well thats a different matter I raced one a while back on the ring road and managed to select 3rd instead of 5th whilst going past one (both balls out), not a nice feeling and looked a little bit of a cock!

Quick car though and the driver was a little surprised!

[/quote']

You've overlooked the trusted 3.6 final drive gearbox mod... Eat This knows how effective that is up until about 100MPH R32's never really posed much of a problem on the road either...

It's how you get the power to the wheels that counts, more people should really consider lowering the final drive... mine still does 145MPH, but it's all over before then anyway... with a charger, it would just be mental.

[dwa1974 0]

What kind of cost are you looking at for changing the final drive pete?

[jaysVR6 2]

You can't compaire a NA VR6 against a new S3. It's has 265bhp with over 350nm of torque at 2' date='500 rpm and 0-62 in 5.7 seconds! It'll kill an even slightly modified VR all day long.

Charged, well thats a different matter I raced one a while back on the ring road and managed to select 3rd instead of 5th whilst going past one (both balls out), not a nice feeling and looked a little bit of a cock!

Quick car though and the driver was a little surprised!

[/quote']

You've overlooked the trusted 3.6 final drive gearbox mod... Eat This knows how effective that is up until about 100MPH R32's never really posed much of a problem on the road either...

It's how you get the power to the wheels that counts, more people should really consider lowering the final drive... mine still does 145MPH, but it's all over before then anyway... with a charger, it would just be mental.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this on buddy. I just can't see it.

[VR6Pete 1,455]

Although my VR was knocking on for 220BHP, perhaps should have mentioned that, with a Schrick VGI, Schrick Big Valve Head, 2.9 Bottom End, 6 Branch, decat etc..

I had my box built with a quaiffe LSD and 3.6 final drive.. I did drive mine again with a standard box and it felt awfull to drive, having to drop gears to get into the power band, with this box I dont have to, power is always there when I need it.

Just look at the first 30 seconds or so of my video on youtube to see how much faster my car was compared to the other VR's down the straight at the ring.... just listen to the engine note... on the power all the time!

I'm sure Kev will also tell you how it transform's the car too.

You will have to speak to Vince to get a price... it's the cost of the quaiffe that bumped the price of my box up as that was over 500 quid alone.

It's just a shame that I never got to take it down the strip at SantaPod... Nevermind it will be back bigger and better!

[Eat this 2]

You can't compaire a NA VR6 against a new S3. It's has 265bhp with over 350nm of torque at 2' date='500 rpm and 0-62 in 5.7 seconds! It'll kill an even slightly modified VR all day long.

Charged, well thats a different matter I raced one a while back on the ring road and managed to select 3rd instead of 5th whilst going past one (both balls out), not a nice feeling and looked a little bit of a cock!

Quick car though and the driver was a little surprised!

[/quote']

ppl get a bit sucked in by 0-60 times if your comparing the same transmission then fine BUT 4wd EATS fwd off the line a better figure would be 60-100 id put money on the vr being a fair bit closer % wise

oh and a charged vr would chew a stock s3 up and spit it out hehe

and yes pete i do vouch for tjhat damn fd and diff lol if i had the cash mine would have it in a heartbeat

[Eat this 2]

jay il add weight to petes side mate mine was around 215-220 bhp and was a shade quicker than r32s dont forget the r32 weighs over 1500 kg and has more tranny loss

[Gibs20 0]

Who could explain more about the 3:6 final drive? Mainly the price of having it done? Cheers

[VR6Pete 1,455]

Speak to Vince at Stealth Racing Cant remember if Anorak's old car had it in too.

[jaysVR6 2]

You can't compaire a NA VR6 against a new S3. It's has 265bhp with over 350nm of torque at 2' date='500 rpm and 0-62 in 5.7 seconds! It'll kill an even slightly modified VR all day long.

Charged, well thats a different matter I raced one a while back on the ring road and managed to select 3rd instead of 5th whilst going past one (both balls out), not a nice feeling and looked a little bit of a cock!

Quick car though and the driver was a little surprised!

[/quote']

ppl get a bit sucked in by 0-60 times if your comparing the same transmission then fine BUT 4wd EATS fwd off the line a better figure would be 60-100 id put money on the vr being a fair bit closer % wise

oh and a charged vr would chew a stock s3 up and spit it out hehe

and yes pete i do vouch for tjhat damn fd and diff lol if i had the cash mine would have it in a heartbeat

Sorry guys am I missing something here, can we not just reply to the original post? The question was:

'Whats the deal with the power to weight ratio on these cars then. Take a healthy OBD2 VR6 circa 185-190 bhp and 1155kg is it? compared to the new S3 circa 260 bhp and 1460kg. What would be the power to weight ratio of both?'

If your talking about a stock Mk1 S3 yea fair enough a charged VR will do a stock S3. However the original post was about the new S3 which is up some 50hp on an old one vs a stock healthy VR, not charged, not mapped, not an exhaust or anything else.

I can only assume the reason the guy asked the question in the first place was because he has a stock VR!

I'm not getting arsey but Pete you've spent a fortune on your car as likewise so has John, the person that originaly posted asked for performance of a healthy 185-195bhp VR vs a new S3, not a VR thats had near 2k (or over) spent on engine modifications, plus a final drive modification!

My reply is (and I'm sure you'll agree) from the original question, is a new S3 will destroy a 10 year old HEALTHY VR with 185-200bhpbhp end of story.

Don't go waisting your money on a final drive modification without investing in engine work mate, it's a complete waste of money imo.

[Eat this 2]

fair dos with rthe rest of your post

My reply is (and I'm sure you'll agree) from the original question, is a new S3 will destroy a 10 year old HEALTHY VR with 185-200bhpbhp end of story

i disagree with that i dont think a 1460 kg car with 260 bhp would destroy a healthy stock/near stock vr i agree it should be a bit quicker but not as much as the power suggests imho

when mine just had an exhaust and ind kit it made 198 at stealth a 250 bhp 3.2 a3 tried and failed to get away from me on a dual carriage way i eventually crawled past him (i was in his slipstream for a bit) he never got past me doing the same thing

[Eat this 2]

a 180 bhp vr has 156 bhp per ton a 1460kg 260 bhp car has 178 per ton

take 18% ish off the vr for tranny loss and that makes 131 bhp per ton at the wheels for the vr and 141 bhp at the wheels for the s3 when you take 25% tranny loss into consideration 10 bhp per ton isnt much at all in the real world

[petervr6 0]

fair dos with rthe rest of your post

My reply is (and I'm sure you'll agree) from the original question' date=' is a new S3 will destroy a 10 year old HEALTHY VR with 185-200bhpbhp end of story

i disagree with that i dont think a 1460 kg car with 260 bhp would destroy a healthy stock/near stock vr i agree it should be a bit quicker but not as much as the power suggests imho

when mine just had an exhaust and ind kit it made 198 at stealth a 250 bhp 3.2 a3 tried and failed to get away from me on a dual carriage way i eventually crawled past him (i was in his slipstream for a bit) he never got past me doing the same thing

[/quote']

think i will have to agree with eat this on this one it will beat the vr of course but i wouldnt say it would destroy it...

but every body has there own opinion

[matth76 1]

You will have to speak to Vince to get a price... it's the cost of the quaiffe that bumped the price of my box up as that was over 500 quid alone.

Can you have the 3.6 final drive fitted without the expensive diff or is it advisable to get both? When my gearbox was out of my car when my chains were done I initially asked if they could fit a 3.6 final drive. However they said it would be ultra expensive and would need a quaif diff or peloquin diff at same time (no point otherwise - said it couldn't be fitted on its own) - I'd be looking at £2k in total for everything! Soon went off that idea. Has anyone ever fitted a 3.6 final drive without fitting an uprated diff? How did your car handle.

[Eat this 2]

i dont see why you could just fit the fd it has the same effect as more power

[VR6Pete 1,455]

money at the end of the day mate.

you dont have to have a diff, but I had a full box rebuild and diff with vw diff pins etc all adds up, but you know it will be a good box.

[Gibs20 0]

Cheers for the replies everyone. It was the power to weight i was simply interested in so thanks 'eat this' for that. I don't expect to beat the S3 anyway, i know it's faster just wondered by how much so cheer all.