mombajomba 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Hi all,First time on here. I have a MK3 Golf VR6, and I just love it. Sadly my thermostat seized yesterday and caused my engine to go thermonuclear. Temp went to over 110 . She won't start now, cranks but doesn't ignite. If I bump it it goes and seems to run fine (apart from water flying out of the expansion tank as the pressure valve has gone too). I'm thinking it is a head gasket failure, no water in the oil or oil in the water that I can see, I haven't taken the sparks out to look at them yet (replaced a month or so ago). Any tips? what should I expect to see on my sparks?I wonder if my battery has just lost some juice with running the auxiliary water pump and fan for too long but I think it is unlikely Simon.. the pedestrian Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 When I crank it with the expansion tank lid off water flights out at a good rate, I assumed this was the water pump but after reading a bit more online this could indicate that pressure from the cylinder is making it's way into the cooling system. Any thought? Link to post Share on other sites
VR6Pete 1,455 Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Hi First of all welcome to the site. Sounds like you need a compression test to verify or ruleout the head gasket... Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 I think it has to be a good way to go. I'm still torn as to what to do if it is the gasket. I hear that too much water in the cylinder can cause deeper engine issues. I'm thinking I'll just buy another one and transfer parts I've recently replaced on this one.Hay ho Link to post Share on other sites
VR6Pete 1,455 Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Just do an engine swap, there are loads for sale as of late. Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Is tempted but again a lot more ballache. My engine was up to this point very solid, Thinking a head gasket change is gunna be easier and cheaper than a full replacement. I hear you can use mk4 gaskets on these to up the compression, and as it's a metal crush gasket on the mk4's its 'arder. Any thoughts on this? sounds a bit sketchy to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Eat this 2 Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 your right about the mk4 gasket its a bit thinner thats why it ups the comp ratio you MAY want/need to retard the timing a touch to prevent pinking but im not sure weather youll need to do this or not Link to post Share on other sites
matth76 1 Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Same thing happened to me a year ago. Thermostats are a weak point on the VR. Mine seized just like yours causing the coolant to empty completely and the water temp hit the roof and the oil temp hit 118. Thankfully I stopped straight away - NEVER NEVER drive if this happens. I got my thermostat changed (£50 all in) and everything was fine. Anything over 130 for the oil temp is something to start worrying about. 110 should be fine. Get the thermostat and all its housing changed asap ...definitely don't drive it one cm. Did you get it towed home as soon as it happened? You'll need to tow it to a garage to get it all done. Once it is all done the main things to look out for are any mysterious coolant loss with no obvious signs of leaks. As long as the power is good and strong you should be ok. As long as you didn't try to drive it after it happened you should be fine mate. Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Sadly being the giant DONG that I am I drove the rest of the way home, I was only a mile away and I figured what the hell, It wouldn't idle and died a few times, probably because the engine and everythirg in it was about twice the size it should be due to the exceptional heat. I am just such a fool, if only I could turn back the clock and go punch myself in the face. The themo and housing are all changed now, as are all the pipes and soon the expansion tank. I went to get my coat out of it this morning and the battery was dead flat, I'd unplugged the aux water pump as it kept going even after the thing was cold. A mystery. It is possible that the battery is causing the starting issue, but as i said before I doubt it. Is it normal for the coolant to leap out of the expansion tank on cgranking if the bottle top is off. I'm wondering if this is the water pump or if it's pressure from a cylinder escaping into the water system.I doubt compression will be an issue, my heads probably so warped I'll be down to a 1.1 litre after the skim. Link to post Share on other sites
antera309 3 Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 The VR6 really doesn't like to be overheated. The head is large and warps very easily. If you do go ahead and replace the HG, get the head checked out while off the car to make sure it has not warped. If it has, then second-hand replacements are plentiful, as Pete says. Link to post Share on other sites
matth76 1 Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Your car may still be ok and it may just be something else that is causing your car to idle badly - which was triggered by the overheat. Did you keep an eye on the oil temp while you drove home? Best to get to Stealth - they aren't far from you. Get your car towed there and tell Vince (Stealth's owner) that you are doing this and within a few hours he should be able to diagnose and hopefully have fixed your problem - or at least tell you one way or another and save you wasting a lot of time trying lots of other things. He's one of the best in the business when it comes to the VR. Good luck mate. Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 That's quite a tow to Southam, I have a land rover but it's not road legal. I'll bear it in mind though mate, cheers. Last think I wanna do is spend a load of my time striping the head off only to find that it wasn't the problem.I have been doing further investigation and it turns out that the battery is flat because the alarm was going off all night, I must be a heavy sleeper but my neighbours were more than happy to tell me.I have just had all of the spark plugs out and they are all wet with fuel making it hard to tell if there is water in there, however the 5th cylinder seemed a lot wetter and the spark even dripped a blob onto my hand that didn't smell like fuel. I selotaped a fine paintbrush to an extension from my socket set to jury rig a dip test. It came out dripping wet, I flicked this fluid onto a kitchen plate straight away to smell it, slightly petroly, but not pure petrol.. Tried to light it (away from the car) and it wouldn't light either.This plus The water jumping out of the bottle by about 6 inch is really making me think. The water jets up from the bottom pipe on the expansion tank, the one that comes from the theromstat housing, I wish I knew if it did this before. i.e if it's just the water pump.. still seems a little over the top.Assuming it is a head gasket and I get a compression test to prove it, how long would you chaps expect it to take? I was hoping to do it in two days, off and skimmed one day, refit the next. I'w pretty sure my timing chain and tensioner will need replacing as I can hear it ticking in low revs. What other things should I be looking at replacing, I heard someone mention some cam sensor that's a fiver the do and worth doing whilst I have it open...Hopfully my mate is coming over to help me look at it later, more news as it comes. Link to post Share on other sites
descb600f 0 Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 If it's pushing water out of the expansion tank then it is almost def the head gasket and the fact you have a non flamable liquid in the cylinders just confirms that.It sounds like your stalling bite the bullet and get it sorted Link to post Share on other sites
bakesty 0 Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 iv just replaced my head gasket , did it myself never done one before neither am i a mechanic didnt even own any spanners. easier than i thought. put and brand new head on for good measure while i was there. can get them nice and cheap if anyone needs one Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Today is the day I start. I'm gunna put some jeans on and make a cup of tea in a minute. Looking through it's history it had the head dane 3 years ago, on the receipt it says the head was skimmed and welded, little worried about a previous crack, will have to see when it's off. There is a good head on the for sale section in birmingham that temps me but I'm worried new cam sprockets will force me into replace the chain etc, I wanna keep this as simple as possible. Hopefully I'll be on later on having taken off the manifolds and various other bits.Simon Link to post Share on other sites
Heardy 0 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I'm just in the process of changing my headgasket,but as usual nothing's ever that straight forward.When i took the rocker cover off there were bits of the top tensioner pad sticking out!!!!!!!!!!!!! So now i'm changing the chains tensioners and guides etc.My car is a 1996 vr and has done 120000 miles so bear this in mind when removing the head as it may turn from a small job into a much bigger one. ps (mine was very quite with no rattles or anything) Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Inlet and exhaust manifold came off easy, Just hope i can remember all the wires and hoses when I put it back together. I've done a photo diary to help me remember. Thermo housing is off etc.I've left the rocker cover on until I have tracked down the star tool for the stretch bolts. Mine is 2 miles short of 150K and is tappy at low revs, I'll just have to wait and see what state it's in when it's in pieces, no way can I afford to replace all the tappets if the prices I've seen are right. I suspect if it all gets a bit sticky in there It'll be getting sold on, I figured I have nothing to lose, the head has to come off anyway. Hopefully I'll track down this star tool today, I know a mate of mine has one and it would be good to have him about anyway since he did a 24valve head a few months ago. Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 No further action on this as I'm still trying to track down a 12mm triple square bit to get these stretch bolts off with, I've got a new head set onroute aswell as the replacement stretch bolts, 70 quid, not too bad. I haven't found the torqeu setting for these stretch bolts anywhere, nor what order they should be loosened/ tightened in.I'm still worried about this thermostat, the replacement unit is shorter than the old one, the sprung metal disc on the end of it is wider too. On the old unit this disc met with the inlet hole. The goy in the parts shop assures me it will be ok and that it is the right part, just wondered if anyone else had seen this? Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Howdy chaps, a little update. I've been cycling to work all week, 25 miles a day. Maybe my VR failing wasn't so bad after all. I've finally located a M12 Spline tool for the head bolts, what a ballache, it's called a triple square, or 12 point, or serated bit, or most commonly in this country a spline bit. I have'nt bought a bit that is good qaulity sadly as no one seems to sell them seperatley, se fingers cross it doesn't bend. Torque settings are 30, 40 ft/lbs +180°. Can anyone translate this for me? I have a torque ratcket on route but have never had to use one before. I assume it means between 30 and 40, but there are two different size bolts by the look of it so it could be this. the +180. Again assumption says tighten to 30 - 40 then half turn with a normal ratchet?.. seems a little insane.Still no joy on the tighten order Link to post Share on other sites
VR6Pete 1,455 Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 head bolt order is available in premium members section knowledge vault. Link to post Share on other sites
thegoth 5 Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I think the torque settings mean do them all in order to 30 ft/lbs, and then again ( in order ) to 40ft/lbs and then give each a half turn. They are stretch bolts so you will need a new set. NEVER reuse the old ones. Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Yup, got the new bolts and head set for 70. Hopefully I'll get it all by the weekend, if not I'll have to sort it after work in the week.Premium membership for me then Link to post Share on other sites
mombajomba 0 Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Canna find said tightening orders in the members only section. Link to post Share on other sites
thegoth 5 Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 There's two guides in the technical documents section of the downloads . One with torque figres and the order, and another about overhauling the engine which actually shows how the bolts are numbered AND the torque settings. Link to post Share on other sites
VR6Pete 1,455 Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I'm sure I moved all those documents to the knowledge vault... as they should all be in 1 place now.. Link to post Share on other sites
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