sump baffels

[lolek 0]

having slightly ruined my sump :-( i require a new one and was thinkng of puttig baffels in it so i could run cut slcks on trackdays. has any one done this and is there any pics and measurements on how to do this. also a sump guard would be useful, does anyone have one or know where to get one. cheers. lloyd

[xyber 1]

I think there is a how to on VW VORTEX and they gut has templates he'll email you

[VR6Will 0]

any links?

been searchin vortex all night and cant find anything...

cheers

[xyber 1]

no sorry, just remember seeing it back along

try searching for baffled oil pan

judging from this pic, it wouldnt be that big a job to weld a plate on the middle fin, leaving room for oil to flow underneath

[CorradoVR6-n.o.s 0]

use the 24v alloy sump,its baffeld and bolts straight on.

[VR6Will 0]

wouldn't exactly call it baffled...and its ally, dont want to risk my bottom end with an ally sump, have anough trouble cathcing with the steel one

[VR6Pete 1,455]

got an R32 sump on mine.... has baffles, had no issues flying around the ring with it, and I was driving it HARD.

got mine from stealth racing, just had to have it welded, as it took a knock when I crashed (I did say i drove it hard around there!)

Having spent 5k on the engine in the months before I went the ring, I didnt have an issue with with smashing the sump as I dont go anywhere near speed bumps, and the ride height is high enough for the sump not to bottom out around the karusell etc..

Obvously they must smash all the time with the R32 rolling out the factory with them, and god knows how many other cars that have ally sumps now.

It also has the benefit of the oil drain in the sump already, so its just plug and play when you come to stick your charger on!

If youve got it slammed, then your only putting more strain on drive shafts etc too, arguably, you wouldnt be driving it hard anyway if your already having issues with catching, so why would you need a baffled one anyway?

Cant have it both ways...

[VR6Will 0]

this is a mkiv ally sump,

is this the same as an r32 one? cant see an oil return so perhaps not...

i wouldnt say my car is slammed, my wishbones are level, perhaps in a mk2 the vr6 engine just sits lower?

personally i would rather have steel sump over an ally sump, personally choice, just like some people would rather have a supercharger over a turbocharger.

[Phat VR6 3]

this is a mkiv ally sump' date='

is this the same as an r32 one? cant see an oil return so perhaps not...

i wouldnt say my car is slammed, my wishbones are level, perhaps in a mk2 the vr6 engine just sits lower?

personally i would rather have steel sump over an ally sump, personally choice, just like some people would rather have a supercharger over a turbocharger.

[/quote']

I have to say I agree with you, My cars slamed and I did this to drive it hard, When it was on the road i drove it very hard daily. But not over speed bumps as its a one wheel at a time jobby lol, Altho I did feget about one ending up with my steal sump becoming dented with the sump plug merged into!!!

I was able to carry on driving on this without it leaking ect but if it was an ally sump id have had to get towed home because id have lost all my oil.. poss righting my engine off if i didn't notest quicky. Also ive hurd that the ally sumps off R32s are even lower to the ground!!

I too would be intrested in plans for fabricating baffles so if you do find any please share with us

[lolek 0]

what sort of clearance do you guys have under your sump? i had 90mm, it got damaged when i miss judged a humped bridge, damn vr landed nose firsr. i tought lowering a car was a good thing to help with handeling on a track, is there a a point where it then has the oppisate affect?

[lolek 0]

xyber, i couldnt get the picture to work.

[VR6Will 0]

what sort of clearance do you guys have under your sump? i had 90mm' date=' it got damaged when i miss judged a humped bridge, damn vr landed nose firsr. i tought lowering a car was a good thing to help with handeling on a track, is there a a point where it then has the oppisate affect?

[/quote']

generally for our cars a good compromise is when the wishbones are level

[FishWick 21]

Yes, the R32 sump is totally different to that 2.8 sump pictured.

Those 4 vains in the 2.8 sump are baffles. Small, yes, but baffles all the same. Look at the angle of them. If you corner hard, the baffles direct the oil to the oil pump's pick up head, which sits about 3mm off the bottom of the pan..... so you REALLY have to be thraping the pants off the car to run the crank dry.

The R32 sump has a plastic windage tray in it aswell as baffles and an oil condition sensor. It won't bolt straight ontoto a 12V. 2.8 sump is the only one that does.

Those sumps are tougher than they look ;-)

[craggsy 91]

So which sumps do fit then Kev? As I beleive the original MK3 VR sump is no longer available

[xyber 1]

Sumps ahoy! http://www.vwspeed.co.uk/volkswagen/vw-parts/Genuine_VR6_Engine_Sump-1354-19.html

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=021103601B&Nav=6&SubNav=none

[craggsy 91]

Jeez....how much, i'll see how much i can get a 2nd hand one for

[xyber 1]

I think they know they are getting rare

[craggsy 91]

vwspeed extra £29 for gasket makes it £92!!!!

[jimmyconway 0]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120217074264&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002 3hours left.

[VR6Pete 1,455]

Some comparison shots between standard sump, and the sump i had before the R32 sump...

[lightbox=../../e107_files/public/1202326630_2_FT217109_p10100128.jpg][/lightbox]

[lightbox=../../e107_files/public/1202326630_2_FT217109_p10100129.jpg][/lightbox]

[lightbox=../../e107_files/public/1202326630_2_FT217109_p10101027.jpg][/lightbox]

[lightbox=../../e107_files/public/1202326630_2_FT217109_p10101030.jpg][/lightbox]

[lightbox=../../e107_files/public/1202326630_2_FT217109_p10101031.jpg][/lightbox]

[lightbox=../../e107_files/public/1202326630_2_FT217109_p10110026.jpg][/lightbox]

[ChrisP 0]

Yes' date=' the R32 sump is totally different to that 2.8 sump pictured.

Those 4 vains in the 2.8 sump are baffles. Small, yes, but baffles all the same. Look at the angle of them. If you corner hard, the baffles direct the oil to the oil pump's pick up head, which sits about 3mm off the bottom of the pan..... so you REALLY have to be thraping the pants off the car to run the crank dry.

The R32 sump has a plastic windage tray in it aswell as baffles and an oil condition sensor. It won't bolt straight ontoto a 12V. 2.8 sump is the only one that does.

Those sumps are tougher than they look ;-)

[/quote']

track use on slicks qualify for "thraping it" Kev?

I have seen the effects many times of running the crank dry due to the oi pickup being starved - as I'm sure you are aware, its more critical on a vr than the 4 cylinder vw engines due to its length. With track use, especially with the VR, oil levels are critical for this reason, and we all know about the consumption the 12v can have.

As to how strong the ally ones are, they arent as strong as the steel ones, and couple that with the cost of an ally sump and it not being a true baffled one, makes it more practical to make or buy a steel baffled sump

[ChrisP 0]

A pic of a 4 cylinder application, but the below is an example of a baffled sump, very different to the 2.8 4 motion sump

Anyone got pics of an R32 sump to put up?

[VR6Pete 1,455]

unlucky, my R32 sump went back on last week, otherwise id have taken pictures. although, the previous pictures I posted are similar from memory.

[FishWick 21]

track use on slicks qualify for "thraping it" Kev?

Yeah that would do it.

I have seen the effects many times of running the crank dry due to the oi pickup being starved - as I'm sure you are aware' date=' its more critical on a vr than the 4 cylinder vw engines due to its length. With track use, especially with the VR, oil levels are critical for this reason, and we all know about the consumption the 12v can have.[/quote']

But the VR6 is a road car, not a track car. If you're tracking the car, then strictly speaking you should be running a dry sump to both get the car lower to the ground and remove any chance of oil starvation.

As to how strong the ally ones are' date=' they arent as strong as the steel ones, and couple that with the cost of an ally sump and it not being a true baffled one, makes it more practical to make or buy a steel baffled sump[/quote']

Steel just bends and if it bends far enough (especially around the sump nut area) it can crack or get a hole in it. I had a steel sump go that way. And again, if the car is so low as to whack the sump and cause damage in the first place, no sump will save you.

£70 for the 4 motion sump is not a lot extra over £48+VAT for a steel one imo.

[ChrisP 0]

OK Kev, if you really want to play that game - you ever come across a dry sump kit for a VR6? Whilst I was looking for a pic of an R32 sump last night I did see something along those lines on Vortex, but it was going to be a custom one off at around 3K (I forget if £ or $) and that was just to make up the new sump and related parts, no pump, tank, lines etc etc.

More to the point, have you ever seen a VW cup (VR6 engined) car fitted with a dry sump system? Apart from the fact that they are more than likely banned, a baffled sump is more than adequate in comparison in terms of it functioning, let alone in cost terms.

If you have ever seen a damaged 12v steel sump (and I'm assuming you have), you will know that its not very often that they bend, more scraped as they dragged on their surface, and the edges are filed off the sump plug. I have only ever seen one that has been damaged to the extent that it had been welded to repair, and the monkey that did that hadnt even realised that the oil pickup had been damaged. That car was excessively low, and was to be expected IMO

I have however seen 4 motions that have been written off due to sump damage and the resulting mess from it, I've even seen one that was so badly hit that the oil pump drive wrecked the block by putting hairline crack in it. and these were bog standard cars - both were bought by people I know as Cat D write offs. I have seen many varients of the MK4 with ally sumps, either sumps fubar'd or with engines wtih damage beyond repair - Still want to use that ally sump?

I personally havent got an expensive bottom end in my car, but you can bet your life if I had spent a buck or two on something other than standard, I wouldnt even consider an ally one for wrecking the whole lot, for that one part

a £70 4 mo sump may not be that much more than a steel 12v version, but I think we have already established that its not exactly baffled compared to what is normally considered to be is it? If an R32 one is more baffled than the 4-mo one, then the cost comparison goes up somewhat, as from what I have read elsewhere, the oil pump and related parts need replacing also, necessitating further cost.

I guess we all have different criteria for what we are happy with (and that goes for everything in life - but wouldnt it be boring if we all like the same eh )