Subframe Question

[spiffo 0]

OK, I'm fitting Powerflex bushes to the whole front end on my '96 VR6 and I've got to these four subframe bushes which seem to replace the four in the Front Engine Carrier (see pic below)

Does anyone know what the point of replacing these is, after all as far as I can make out all it does is support the front engine mount so what's the point of uprating the bushes exactly, how is that going to make the car handle better ?

[cabrioman 6]

not to sure but im guessin it will take some of the movement and vibrations from the front section of the engine ....and put it throu the chassis

[spiffo 0]

Mmmmm, all I can think of is that as you turn into a corner the engine will want to go straight on, so it will try to deform / distort the bushes on this front engine carrier and so the engine will twist position slightly in the engine bay. If you fit the stiffer Powerflex bushes it won't shift position so much.

What benefit you would get from that is baffling me at the moment, maybe I should give Powerflex a ring and ask them what they think they're for.

[spiffo 0]

OK, had a go at replacing them tonight but gave up, there seems no way of getting the steel washer off the inner steel tube without wrecking one or the other or both.

Has anybody else actually replaced these bushes, anyone at all ?

[Knightrider 1]

I spoke to a very helpful and knowledgeable guy at a VW tuning specialist in South Croydon called Tuning Werkes http://www.tuningwerkes.co.uk/index.html#

He told me that it was fairly pointless changing all the bushes Powerflex offer and that the most cost effective is to do the 4 front wishbone bushes, 2 each side and the 2 rear axle (beam) bushes, one each side. Job done!

[spiffo 0]

Well that's what I've done, the Rear Beam ones, the front Wishbone ones and also the power steering rack and the front anti-roll bar ones.

Finished today ! Unfortunately the car has been up axle stands that long, the battery has gone flat so I can't go out and try it out yet. |-)

[Charged VR 0]

Fitted the powerflex bushes to the lower arms of my VR and after about 6months the car drifted when flooring it on the motorway. Found the front bushes had worn oval and the lower arms were floating around. Best to keep an i eye on them mate

[Phat VR6 3]

Fitted the powerflex bushes to the lower arms of my VR and after about 6months the car drifted when flooring it on the motorway. Found the front bushes had worn oval and the lower arms were floating around. Best to keep an i eye on them mate

Is that the front ones? Steath told me not to fit them and they fail all the time. Ive only got the rear ones fitted...

[spiffo 0]

Yeah, the front Wishbone Bushes, I'd better keep a sharp on eye on them then.

[spiffo 0]

OK done a bit of searching and have found out a few things.

Firstly, a few people have aftermarket wishbones (from GSF mostly) and the Wishbone Bush with the vertical bolt through the middle of it doesn't fit correctly, in fact they move up and down and this can destroy the bush.

Secondly the MK3 bush has a steel inner and the MK2 bush doesn't, so if you've not fitted the correct MK3 bush, again it will be destroyed eventually.

I've yet to find anyone who's had problems with the correct MK3 Bush in an original OEM Wishbone in a MK3 subframe which is me, you've got me worried now |-)

[Charged VR 0]

It was the front ones that wore out on my VR and it has original VW arms. i hope the bushes were right as got them from someone who worked there!!! I think it was also due to the terrible roads around me!!! Powerflex did have the bushes back to inspect and put it down to a bad batch, they replaced them with new ones, but i never fitted them again

[matty.vrt 120]

i did some research before doing mine i was told the front wishbone bushes are harder to change and dont realy do much the rears are far more effective and easyer to change so i only did them 6months no probs fingers crossed.

[Knightrider 1]

Don't know if this might help with the removal of the old rubber bushes - can't really tell from the picture. It is on the Superflex website http://www.superflex.co.uk/fitting2.php

They tell you to take a blow torch to it!

[spiffo 0]

OK, battery charged up, all suspension bolts torqued up and went for a spin.

It definitely feels a bit better on the turn in, however settle into a corner and feed in the power and it still understeers like crazy, I reckon if you floored the throttle going around a tight roundabout you'd be straight into those nice barriers on the outside, nose first !

Mind you I've yet to have the camber and toe in setup properly, basically I've used a spirit level to set the camber to about zero and a tape measure on the front and back of the tyres to set the Toe In to about zero as well, I know the standard settings aren't too far away from this so that was just to get the thing driveable and in the right ballpark.

There's another thread running on camber and toe in, I think I'll join that.

[lowvr 0]

how hard was it to fit the rest of the bushes as im purchasing the kit but trying to decide weather to attempt this my self

i dont have access to a ramp either and its always piss taking working under a low car

[spiffo 0]

It's not an easy job at all, I'd say.

You could probably do the wishbone ones without dropping the Subframe, although it gets really tight trying to put them back in, I found loosening the remaining Subframe bolts on the side I was doing and then allowing the subframe to sag downwards a couple of cm's gave me just about enough room to force the wishbone back into place.

Oh but forgot to mention that the front wishbone bolt on the drivers side doesn't clear the sump, so either you take the sump off (if you need an oil change anyway you could do that), or take all the engine mount bolts out and lift the engine out the way. I took the sump off.

There was also one bolt, the passenger wishbone rear one (vertical into the chassis) that I just could not budge. In the end I had to borrow a compressor and air wrench to shock it out !

Basically I wouldn't attempt it yourself unless you have plenty of time and equipment to throw at it.

[matty.vrt 120]

if your camber is out its gonna handle like a sack of **** i put some coilovers on my old mk2 and quickly diverted my test run to the local tire place lol.