VR6 won't start - Possibly head/lifter related?

[Das Matt 3]

Hi All, i've tried going through as much as i can on various forums and what not and i can't seem to find anything similar to the problem i'm having with my car... so if anyone is able to offer some suggestions i would be extremely grateful because i'm at my wit's end.

 

I recently decided to retire my old engine (for later rebuild i can take my time with) and give my car a fresher one. Went down to local engine importers and bought myself an ABV and proceeded to replace vital components before dropping the engine in, timing chains + guides + tensioners + water pump + oil pump etc. A couple of mates of mine and i did all of the work bar the head which was sent in after one of my mates thought he'd bent some valves doing the timing. It turned out the valves were fine but guides needed replacing so that was done and the head was skimmed. I used a metal head gasket and everything was put back together and back in the car. Once all of the electrical and sensors etc were plugged back in we unplugged the coil, built up oil pressure, plugged the coil back in and tried to start it and started first time (never actually seen an engine start up that willingly after work like this!). I let it run for about 20 secs and then turned it off to connect the cooling system back up and throw some coolent in. From then the car just became more and more difficult to start each day, and when it did start it wasn't happy to idle, until it wouldn't start at all. Eventually i was able to loan a code reader from a friend and we got the "engine start blocked by immobilizer" message. Since then i've had after market management installed in the hope of bypassing anything immobilizer related (this was something i wanted to do down the line anyway so figured i may as well do it upfront). 

 

That was basically where ideas started running out. The last thing i tried was replacing the new oil pump i installed with one i new was running properly before, thinking that maybe the release valve on the pump wasn't working and oil pressure was building up too high and causing the lifters to keep the valves open. (tests at the guy who installed the management revealed low compression in some of the cylinders). Also when i replaced the oil pump there were tiny metalic fragments in the sump.. after replacing the pump i took the cam cover off so that i could bleed the lifters and i saw the cams appeared to be wearing a little so i thought that could explain the metallic fragments in the sump. I bled the lifters over two days and then put everything back together again and tried starting it but still no luck. I've tried pull starting it, it starts with a struggling and seems to run on all 6 but but doesn't like load and wont idle (think that still needs to be set for the after market management though). Eventually yesterday it wouldn't even start with a pull. I'm convinced there is something not right with the head. If any of these symptoms sound familiar to anyone please help! 

 

[mattvr6 133]

So has the new management been mapped? Set up right?as for the oil pump I can't c that not starting the car, have u done the obvious and checked the crank sensor etc??

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[Sump_slammer 23]

Without the car infront of me its all stabbing in the dark. But if it just about idles and then cuts out with throttle it sound fuel related. Is the pump priming? And are you getting fuel to the rail? If so check the injectors are switching with a noid light or multi meter. If that all seams good mabee mass air flow or throttle position sensor. It dosnt help not having the engine running before the management went in. Where are you located?

[Das Matt 3]

Thanks for the responses guys. I realise it's difficult not having the car in front of you but unfortunately i have no choice, i'm in south africa. I'm more just looking for ideas and opinions - is my concern about the head justified etc.. the crank pick up is working, fuel and spark is there.. one thing i may have done when i tried to pull start it the second time when it wouldn't start is fowled the plugs.. i'll pull them out this evening to make sure they aren't wet. the management has a rough map on at the moment, hasn't been tuned properly as the car wouldn't start. One of the reasons i put the management in now is coz it rules out things like MAF and TPS. I'm also able to see whether my crank pick is working or not thanks to pulse lights on the box. 

[Sump_slammer 23]

If its got all that then id start looking at the base map. How has it ruled out tps and maf? You are still running them?

[Das Matt 3]

The management only uses air temp, water temp, crank pick up and it's own built in map sensor which works off vacuum from the intake... i'll start looking into the map next. 

[yakuza racer 16]

what management you running?

 

"low compression in some of the cylinders" - i could guess this is the issue

 

perhaps the rings are collapsed, also those metal fragments could have damaged the bore/pistons/rings/etc...

 

i have gotten motors from Mikes in CPT, fitted and started already but i always strip the motor down before fitting just to make sure everything looks good and replace the important bits which has wear on them.

 

if you have skype hit me up....

[Das Matt 3]

It's power mods management. we also thought maybe rings but we tried dropping some oil into each of the cylinders and tested compression again and it didn't go up at all. the bores also looked fine when we last took the head off so not sure.. shot for the reply.. sent you my mail addy for skype if you want to chat there. 

[FRANK VR6 2]

Hey I am a SA to.if you put oil down the bores and still low comp then your valves are stuck open/bent, headgasket not sealing or piston/bores major damage! Need to get the head back off.good luck.where are you guys in SA?

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[Das Matt 3]

FRANK VR6 thanks for the reply.. I'm in Joburg you? the car seems to start now but not reliably.. it will start and then after letting it die it doesn't start again till a day or two later.. it's running very rich at the moment so want to try lean it out because there's a chance the plugs are getting wet. then see if anything changes, if not then ya the head is coming off again.

[VR6Pete 1,455]

Sounds like you need whip head off and check. If it's running really rich you could have washed your bores and scored them, could also explain metallic fragments, I can't imagine that they would be off your cams though I'm afraid! Have you done a compression test or leak down test?

Club Chairman