New vr mods

[matty1990vr6 7]

Hi

I've owned 2 vr previous and now I'm itching to get another.

My plan is to find a cheapest 3dr and rebuild the engine, renew all the suspension parts, coil overs, bigger brakes etc then eventually TURBO!!

I've just recently bought a new house with plenty garden for a' PROJECT' well that's what I keep telling our lass, and so far she's okay with it

Now engine mods!

I can't afford to buy a load of turbo parts and fit them, or even go straight to stealth.

My plan is to rebuild the engine, and add 263 cams, and a few smaller mods ready to turbo at a later date

So 1st question

What sort of power can be achieved without a turbo? I.e cams, 3" stainless with 6 branch, cold air feed, and a remap?

2nd question

Will 263 cams, be okay on a naturally aspirated engine then be okay when I decide to turbo? I'm assuming 263 are the choice of cams for people

3. Anything else to consider?

I will be rebuilding the engine inc new seals, gaskets everything.

I only plan on re using the pistons valves etc as even when I do turbo, I'm only after about 350bhp

I will put arp studs and bolts also.

I haven't bought a car yet, as I have things to prepare for first, just wanting to get an idea.

Thanks

[martingraham 21]

Pretty much the same plan I have for mine.

[Bealieboy 1,625]

With your first group of mods on a healthy obd2 you might see 210-220bhp.

263's are the cam of choice for everyday driveability, you don't lose too much midrange torque with them.

I'm not sure how the 263's work on turbo applications but someone on here will help you with that. I'd be surprised if they're not ok to use.

Exhaust wise, you will struggle to get 3" diameter to fit over the rear axle I believe?!

Edited May 8, 2015 by Bealieboy

[cactusjackslade 146]

The sp 263 cams were originally designed for use in turbo applications. People started fitting them to naturally aspirated engines and found they were great there also. I had sp 263 cams n/a and produced 206 bhp with map. The engine felt more Torquay and revved up much quicker. Was a great mod. I have recently gone turbo and can confirm they perform excellently now also. 263's are the ones to go for.

Edited May 8, 2015 by cactusjackslade

[Mk3highline 287]

Or start with a 2.8 24v from a golf 4motion 204bhp standard

It probably cheaper than getting (new)cams and make more power and shed load more torque in the mid range

It cost me a week away from home lol with about £25 up after I sold all the old bits

[matty1990vr6 7]

Although your right with the 4motion is prefer the mk3 vr6, mainly for looks, and it doesn't look like another mk4 on the road. Plus I haven't looked into things for the 24v so means more research although I know it's pretty much the same lump

I have heard things about a 3" pipe clearance issues but apparently it can fit and is worth although il work around it somehow with either a 2.5" or 2"

So 263s are the ones then, even with cams and exhaust with a remap I'd only see just over 200bhp?

I was hoping to achieve 250bhp ish before getting boost, this isn't an issue just I probably expected more

[daveyboy 897]

I think mk3highline has ran his mk3 with the mk4 24v engine on the rollers at 230bhp and this is the reason I'm picking my 24v engine up tomorrow

Edited May 9, 2015 by daveyboy

[Mk3highline 287]

Oh sorry I meant was to swap in a 24v lump I paid £350 for the engine wiring ecu and gearbox

I sold gear box for £170

Old engine for £100

HT leads and tool for £30

Alternator £25

Intake pipe-PCv £25

Old clutch and flywheel I think I got £30

And I've still got some other bits left to sell

To get 250bhp from a 12v you would need loads and loads of cash to waste

A nothell mk3 golf with big valve head port polish and 3.2 didn't make 250

My standard 24v with a 4.4kg flywheel made 229bhp 200ft lbs and 224bhp second time at stealth and that is without a remap still got the cat and restrictive exhaust and a list of faults both times

Hope you see why I'm advising towards 24v

[matty1990vr6 7]

Yeah totally understand what ta mean, I just didn't catch on with what you said originally.

Yeah It be cheaper per Bhp.

Something to consider or do I just turbo a 12v straight away lol

Il do some research

[daveyboy 897]

Turbo the 24v instead even better again. Another member on here VIW28 has an around 550bhp mk3 with a 2.8 24v turbo engine in it

[matty1990vr6 7]

JESUS CHRIST LOL

I didn't want to rush into things but 500bhp is unreal

My aim is a sort of track car but useable weekend car. I want it to look clean and nice but still with a track feel.

I.e no rear interior and a roll cage, but still have a false floor with a spare wheel, fancy race seats with harnesses as they is only me and the girlfriend.

I wanted it as a project per the summer and winter then be issuable next year OR just a rebuild vr for this summer then take it off the road for the winter, I know you guys are saying the 24v swap is the way to go then turbo that but won't this increase the cost as I read that 24v parts cost more

I wanted to keep costs down to some extent and even do the diy turbo build myself, which between myself and a friend are more than capable.

I understand that archiving 210+ bho without boost is a waste of money and time, So maybe worth just rebuilding with 263s, and arp bolts and studs, then a remap. This will suffice for the year then since the cams and studs etc are done I can turbo it through the winter without rebuilding (although a spacer plate will have to be fitted)

I'm by no means disregarding you're advice on the 24v as I think it a good idea and clearly has more potential I just think since this is my first real project I'm taking serious, and with us being new home owners I've got to balance things I think the 12v will do more than enough with a stage 1 turbo kit at around 350bhp,I currently drive a 130bhp Audi diesel hahah so I'd be happy with that 10 fold.

I'm by no means not considering it for a future way to do things

I'm still reading through some build threads to help me plan it all through before I start

[matty1990vr6 7]

Just read viw28 build thread and although that is a very impressive car, it's too much for my current budget and goals

I do like his interior, race style but with comfort, which is exactly what I want.

As for engine..... Unreal. But it's just too much ATM, I think il just turbo a 12v, And aim for about 350bhp

Along with a full underneath rebuild too, I'm even just going to keep the standard vr6 mk3 alloys

I've got a spare inlet, injectors and other parts lying around too.

A 350bhp 20year old car that's had some weight stripped out, is going to wipe the floor with a lot of cars even of today's standards such as vxr's, standard scoobies, etc

I'm going to start collecting parts even before I've bought the car

Thanks for you're help lads I appreciate it, no doubt il be asking more questions along the way

[Mk3highline 287]

depends which parts your on about

It's more or less the same engine with extra 12v lol and a lot better head design

Servicing is same

Only difference when you go turbo will be the exhaust manifold but there only cheap

Which costs you on about?

Plus the 24v management is miles better one reason being as it uses wide band lambda as standard

Have a read of swivellingit s thread his got a low boost 24v 4motion

Zak

But the 12v VR6 does sound million times better than the 24v

[matty1990vr6 7]

I read a post on this forum that 24v tuning part are 20-30% more expensive, although I don't recall the age of the post, so could of be a while ago.

You clearly know what your talking about but without sounding funny, if the 24v engine is so much better, which I'm not saying it isn't, why hasent everyone on here done it?

I do love the 12v sound too, lol

I think Im just wanting to make this simple tbh, especially at first, as I don't know the condition of the car il be buying (hopefully il find a good one, plenty out there if I keep looking)

How hard is the 24v swap? I'm colourblind so the last thing in wanting to do is mess about with loads of wires and get frustrated.

What if I disregarded what I said about tuning it without s turbo and just get it turbo'd when I rebuild the 12v ?

I only wanted to run it with a few mods at first then turbo a later date is to keep costs lower but I guess we will see where this is going lol

[daveyboy 897]

There's a lad on here southerner88 got a turbo'd 12v engine for sale on here if you want to go turbo

[Mk3highline 287]

I'm colour blind too!!!

Well being honest I ended up using the 12v ecu so didn't have to rewire much besides the injectors and couple others like extend MAF sensor wires one wire on the alternator plug

It took me and hour to do the injectors one earth and 6 live lol

only reason I went 24v was the limits of the vr6 head N/A struggle to get to 250bhp

And cheaper than rebuilding the 12v

There are a few out there who can do a wiring loom for you so that its plug and play

There are quite a few corrados and golf with 4mo and r32 engines in

Its basically same engine to mount in the bay same mountings used

it took me a week but half that time I was getting stressed doing the heater matrix throwing spanners swearing making lots of tea eating and on phone to my mrs lol

I told her I would be back in a couple of days

Any ways if your near Northampton pop over I will take you out in the black rusty shed lol

I'm sort of in same boat as recently moved etc

In all the years of messing with cars this is by far the best most cost effective conversion I've done that's lasted lol 10k miles in 7 months

Zak

[daveyboy 897]

I'll be giving you a call soon well I mean when I start my swap lol got the engine yesterday gonna start stripping bits off like the a/c pump, powersteering pump, clutch and flywheel and all the chopped coolant pipes

[matty1990vr6 7]

Yayyyy!! Colour blind people lol

It does seem very worth it overall, especially if someone can make a plug n play harness, my mate does remapping so stuff on that side of things is great.

Does a 24v head not fit on the 12v block? Well saying that it's the same as doing a full swap isn't since it's the same block haha brain fart!!

I appreciate the offer Zak but I'm miles away lol, I'm in County Durham/Newcastle area but thanks anyway

Like Davey said it might be wise to go straight turbo, but I am interested in 24v now, just not interested in the extra work and money. I know selling the 12v would cover costs but this was meant to be a BUDGET build lol

Perhaps in the future I could look at buying a 24v lump as a spare then one time do a conversion, like you said earlier it's only the manifold for the chapter that's different, so wouldn't be a difficult swap apart from the stuff mention in your previous post.

The girlfriend will be going mad if I pump a load of coin into this as well, lol she's getting a car very soon which takes priority I'm afraid

I'm a body/paint guy by trade although not now, so il be focusing on the body once it's stripped. road legal track car theme! And ultimate sleeper!

I think the whole 24v thing is I wanted to keep it simple to start with it. Don't go overboard, don't make it a show car, it's a hobby...well that's what I tell her lol

I've been thinking and I reckon

2.8 12v obd2

263 camshaft

3" stainless with decat (attempt rear axel clearance lol)

Full rebuild

Maybe lighter pulleys

Remapped

Then once I've got enough parts to turbo it il take it off the road

From there

312 front brakes

Bigger rears

Poly bushes to some extent (haven't looked into Thai much )

Coilivers but not stupid low

Under seal and repair any rust damage underneath

Powder coat all engine bay bits such as subframe etc

Braided hoses

Roll cage (aesthetic mainly)

Turbo

Not going to daft I know it sounds a lot but it isn't really, most of them parts are quiets easy to get, I can weld and paint so that is just a time consuming factor.

Once I've bought a good car to start with (3sr obd2) for a reasonably price il start a build thread.

[daveyboy 897]

Hey matty when I get my swap done I'll take you for a blast. I'm in Newcastle. Good to see more proper northerners on here lol

[daveyboy 897]

Oh by the way georgehull on here is selling his mk3. It's in the for sale section. It's a tidy car from what I remember. It was on our club stand at vw festival last year

[matty1990vr6 7]

Aye Davey cheers

Be good to see another vr

And il have a look for that mk3

[Mk3highline 287]

Hey matty when I get my swap done I'll take you for a blast. I'm in Newcastle. Good to see more proper northerners on here lol

Im a Yorkshire lad have been till last 4-5 years

[daveyboy 897]

Aye Davey cheers

Be good to see another vr

And il have a look for that mk3

Maybe you can introduce me to your mate who does remap too coz I'll want it mapped once it's in

[Bealieboy 1,625]

That sounds wrong daveyboy, could you try using some different words with less innuendo?

[daveyboy 897]

That's your filthy mind sqeals