VR6 won't crank, just a clunk..

[MarkGolf 6]

Hi Guys,

Been a while but trying to get my Golf going.. It's not been driven for 2.5 years and the last time I cranked it over was around 6 months ago..

Recently I turned the engine over by hand at the crank before trying by key. I hopped into the car and the car cranked but not enough to fire.. Every attempt there after, it doesn't crank. I can just hear a clunk from the starter motor, I assume this is the solenoid.

I have 12.4V at the battery (this is in the boot), I have 12.4v at the starter and there is power at the red/black wire when I crank but I don't get a chance to see the number on the voltmeter.

I was worried my earths were not quite good enough so as a test, I hooked up an extra earth lead from the block to the chassis, the main engine earth runs from under the gearbox to one of the 13mm bolts which hold the front crash bar on. All earths test fine so I'm confident this isn't an issue.

It's been a while so I have forgotten some bits about the car, it did occur to me that I have a new ignition switch to fit as I do not get ignition power to the radio, only permanent.. With this is mind I thought that it has to be the switch but I can hear a clunk at the starter so it can't be..

My first suspicion is the solenoid at fault but just don't know fore sure..

Any help would be much appreciated

Thanks,

Mark

[reynolds9000 26]

not trying to be an ass but have you tried tapping it with a hammer? occasionally you get lucky and it will unstick whatever is stuck haha.

sounds to me like the starter has gone tits up. It's not too much effort to remove it on these cars thankfully. don't know if the UK has anything similar but here in the USA there are automotive parts stores that will bench test a starter for free to eliminate it as a possibility.

[MarkGolf 6]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I did give the starter a bit of a tap with a rubber mallet but not as hard as I would have liked as the whole thing has been chrome plated..

 

Have to be careful when doing anything, complete pain in the arse!!

 

 

I'm not aware of anywhere that can test the starter, would like to know though. 

 

I do have another in bits which was a spare, no solenoid however, just wanted to know if this sounds like a starter issue or not, if so, the actually solenoid or lumpy bit!

 

Thanks

Edited September 22, 2015 by MarkGolf

[reynolds9000 26]

yeah I see what you mean! definitely don't want to go swinging a hammer to violently in that engine bay haha. my opinion is that the starter is suspect. you're getting an audible clunk when you turn on the ignition and the engine turns over freely by hand, which rules out any internal engine issue. probably from sitting for extended periods. you can always swap the guts from a good starter into your chromed starter housing and be good to go

[reynolds9000 26]

try removing the starter and applying 12 volts directly to the solenoid to see if it spins

[MarkGolf 6]

Thanks for your help again!

Tried some troubleshooting on it today..

So, the battery is in the boot, I am running 0awg positive and negative. The battery is ground out to the boot floor and the positive runs to a BMW terminal box and then to the starter motor.

I am using a BOSCH S4 (560A 60ah) battery.. Possibly a bit weak for the demand on it when cranking..

So, the first thing I did today was run a jumper cable from the start postive to the ignition live on the solenoid, this turned the starter but only just..

This prompted me to try with the key, turned the key and woohoo, car fired up.. Shut it off and tried again, it worked.. Ok so out it came from the garage and I let the car get upto temp while I did the tyre pressures and kept an eye on things..

I then decided to drive the car up and down the drive to rotate the tyres and clean the brakes.. All ok. I then turned the car off and left it. Came to start it again and problem is back, just a clunk from the starter.. Jumping it did the same thing..

When I turned the key to crank, everything would turn off and clock resets.. Sometimes the start would make no noise.

The starter motor was tooo hot to touch toward the end of the main body, literally boiling hot!! Not even the engine was as hot. No matter what I did, push start, jumping, hitting it with a rubber mallet etc would make it turn over.

I then decided to try getting a jump from another car for extra poke, doing this, the car fired right up! All good. Maybe its my battery..

I then put the car away and left it an hour before trying again, 3 starts in a row, the car fired up beautifully, no clock resetting. The 4th attempt onwards, no crank and clock resetting. I had a volt meter on the battery during this, the first 3 times the voltage would drop to 9/10v, on the 4th attempt, 7... I waited a few mins and tried again, the car continuously started but after a bit of throttle, the voltmeter was showing the battery going down to 7 volts but the car was starting ok, just took a few more cranks to fully go..

So now I'm torn between the starter and battery... Maybe it's both. I have got access to a battery from a mercedes diesel van which has more power so I think I'll throw that on and try it out, as for the boiling hot starter, could this just be because its not getting a good power supply?

The voltage reads the same at the starter terminals as the battery..

Hope this all makes sense, just a bit drained and past bed time!

Cheers

[cactusjackslade 146]

It does sound like you have two problems to me. The starter motor shouldn't get that hot ( unless you have been cranking the engine over continually for ages) which you haven't been. Starter motors tend to get hot like that when they are lazy / sticking and really struggling to turn the engine over, at the same time it puts a huge load on the battery drawing excessive current, and from the sounds of it that battery isn't upto it. I'd say with a new starter motor and a good quality powerful battery you will see a big difference.

[MarkGolf 6]

I agree with that..

 

The starter motor has always been a bit slow to turn over, ever since I completed the car, the car struggled to fire up and when cranking, every time the clocks would reset. 

 

I used to have an Optima yellow top battery, the car was the same, lazy and slow to turn over, compared to my mates VR6's which would fire up on the button and really fast. 

 

I am going to connect a larger battery up and see what happens, if no improvement, I'll get a new starter motor and keep my fingers crossed. 

 

One last question, on 1 of the 2 bolts which hold the starter motor to the gearbox, one has a thread on the head of the bolt, should an earth be attached to this? 

 

I already have a main 0 gauge earth from under the gearbox to the crash bar and a 4 gauge wire which goes from the block to the chassis leg.

 

Cheers!

[cactusjackslade 146]

Yes mine defiantly has an earth wire coming off that starter bolt, can't ember off the top of my head where it goes but will have a look the weekend when I have the bonnet up and let you know. You may find an improvement with a larger battery hooked up but from what you have explained the starter motor is lazy. I'd replace both battery and starter for peace of mind and many worry free start ups lol.

Will report back over weekend regarding starter bolt earth....

[cactusjackslade 146]

Had the bonnet up on mine today and the earth cable coming from the stater bolt is the main earth going to the battery terminal..

[MarkGolf 6]

Thanks mate!!

 

I just finished fitting a new ignition switch and the car no longer seems to be resetting the clocks when cranking although all I am getting is the clunk of the solenoid. I saw your post and I used a jump lead to earth that bolt to the chassis but same clunk, so new starter it is. 

 

I'll report back with what happens!

 

Thanks again

[cactusjackslade 146]

No probs, keep us posted

[dale p 62]

what was outcome on this as mines got very similar symptoms

 

cheers