dubspy 19 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 On 3/7/2016 at 9:50 AM, daveyboy said: I think Logan_M is already in the states dubspy. I remember when I got mine from ATP for my 1.8t years ago I saved about £500 than getting it from Awesome that was including shipping and import costs. That was for the turbo and 3" inlet pipe Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk woops didn't see location on my phone.. yeah if in the states ATP would be cheaper. years ago ATP worked out a lot cheaper for me too but last month Owen developments worked out cheaper than all the providers shipped to me. daveyboy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Logan_M 6 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) After a quick email exchange with ATP I've gotten my "kit" up to this so far: Quote Turbo: (.82 A/R with T3 GT 3" V-Band housing) - $1639.22http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-006&Category_Code=GRT Downpipe: - $295.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-177&Category_Code=AUDIVW-DP Manifold: - $395.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-003&Category_Code=VVWM Wastegate (Black with .8 bar spring): - $395.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=TIL-WGT-035&Category_Code=WGT Wastegate Adapter: - $34.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FLS-039&Category_Code=WGT Oil Inlet: - $12.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-036&Category_Code= Oil Return Flange - $15.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FLA-010&Category_Code= Coolant Fittings (2 sets, $22.00ea) - $44.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-003&Category_Code= $2829.22 I kinda guessed on the wastegate spring. They told me to choose one with the lowest PSI I'd ever want, and it can run at up to 2x that amount. So that .8 bar spring would be 11.76 PSI - 23.52 PSI. Sound about right? I'm not sure what other fittings or gaskets I need. They didn't specify in the email they sent. Here's my guesses/ideas at other parts I'll need: Quote Oil Return Gasket - $3.00http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=GRT-GSK-008&Category_Code=GSK Oil Return Flange Bolts, Wastegate Adapter Bolts (Alternate Hex Head, Qty 4, $1.15ea) - $4.60http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=MIA-FST-034&Category_Code= $7.60 Edited March 25, 2016 by Logan_M Link to post Share on other sites
matty.vrt 120 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I went with a 7psi Spring on mine to begin with. This meant I could get it all setup and working without having to upgrade the fuel pump, clutch and lowering the compression. The net result was 300bhp on a motor that had done over 150,000 miles. Later when I fitted a clutch, head spacer and pump I kept the 7psi Spring in and raised the boost with a Electronic boost controller, running closed loop boost control over wastegates Spring pressure will help spool the turbo and make peak boost faster. Link to post Share on other sites
Logan_M 6 Posted March 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 14 hours ago, matty.vrt said: I went with a 7psi Spring on mine to begin with. This meant I could get it all setup and working without having to upgrade the fuel pump, clutch and lowering the compression. The net result was 300bhp on a motor that had done over 150,000 miles. Later when I fitted a clutch, head spacer and pump I kept the 7psi Spring in and raised the boost with a Electronic boost controller, running closed loop boost control over wastegates Spring pressure will help spool the turbo and make peak boost faster. Well I've already got a forged everything lowered compression engine build in progress, as well as a transmission with spec stage 3 clutch and wavetrac diff. I'd rather just do this once and be done. It'll be over built and that's fine. It hopefully won't blow up easy that way lol. Link to post Share on other sites
matty.vrt 120 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Wow you sure ain't messing about there then. That said it is still good to start with a low boost and work your way up. 7 psi will feel fast to begin with but once you run 14 psi you will never go back to 7. Then you will want more so you run 20psi and then you want more so you will end up running 26psi lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Logan_M 6 Posted March 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Yeah, it's a Stage 3 port and polished head with 42mm/36mm valves. Wiseco forged 9:1 pistons, Eurospec forged rods, ARP hardware throughout. Trans has the wavetrac, spec clutch, and arp hardware. Going to convert to OBD2 for tuning. Probably do water/meth injection for safety as well. It's only like $500, seems like good insurance. Link to post Share on other sites
Logan_M 6 Posted April 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) Any advice on injector sizing? Stuck between 440cc and 630cc now. From what I understand the 440s will idle better and "behave" a bit better at my HP goal (400-450ish whp), but the 630 leave room to grow. Also, why not 5-something? Seems people either for 440cc or 630cc, is there a reason? What are you guys running and why? Edited April 9, 2016 by Logan_M Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Custom Black Ops spec or Blue Knight's because they are very fast and have good spray pattern but most choose cheaper ones like you've mentioned. A lot of work is done to modify the stock ecu so most of the time you'll likely be limited to what the mapper uses or has done unless you want to spend more on a custom tune? Judging by some of the pro tunes I have looked at, idle issues are a result of poor mapping, for example on one 500 euro tune the ignition closing times were done to 480rpm and then from 2000rpm onwards, few of those changes in the ecu and it was no wonder his idle was pants! Latency/dead times are all factored into a good tune so find out if/what your mapper uses, assuming of course they have the ability to add boost control to the ecu. Me personally, I would choose the 630's, lower duty cycle than 440's per psi, no need to change when you turn the wick up......makes sense! Link to post Share on other sites
matty.vrt 120 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Most people use 440's or 630's as there C2/ UM tune means they have too. Like RBPE said I would use the 630's the lower duty cycle and better atomisation puts them streets ahead of 440's. I've ran up to 576 crank and still had some head room at 3 bar base pressure. Link to post Share on other sites
Logan_M 6 Posted April 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Thanks guys, sounds like that'll work for me. The guy that's doing my tuning said that some people have idle issues with bigger injectors like 630cc, so that's why he said 440cc might be better for my application. This is a street car, but a very rarely driven one, not a daily by any means. I think 630cc would work best and leave room for future upgrades without having to change parts. Now I need to figure out what to do for an intake manifold. So much debate over short runners and whether or not they are good. Sounds like the general consensus is that they help with piping installations and routing but aren't really great for HP. Although, as bad as it sounds, I can just make up for that with another couple pounds of boost if it came to that. What intakes do you guys run? Short runners, modified stock, stock? Link to post Share on other sites
matty.vrt 120 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 There's a lot of science behind intake manifolds and runner length, plenum volume etc.. So I prefer to talk from experience as I have no qualifications in engineering or flow dynamics. On my old VRT I ran a HGP style bottom entry from hubrennertechnik and it made more power than stock as I was impatient and fitted it first. Later I ran a SPturbo one and that worked really well too. The stock manifold is less than ideal both in its placing for piping and soaking up heat from the engine. Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 On 4/9/2016 at 7:25 PM, Logan_M said: Thanks guys, sounds like that'll work for me. The guy that's doing my tuning said that some people have idle issues with bigger injectors like 630cc, so that's why he said 440cc might be better for my application. This is a street car, but a very rarely driven one, not a daily by any means. I think 630cc would work best and leave room for future upgrades without having to change parts. Now I need to figure out what to do for an intake manifold. So much debate over short runners and whether or not they are good. Sounds like the general consensus is that they help with piping installations and routing but aren't really great for HP. Although, as bad as it sounds, I can just make up for that with another couple pounds of boost if it came to that. What intakes do you guys run? Short runners, modified stock, stock? If you're using a C2 or UM tune then surely you don't need a mapper as it is a plug and play oem modification if you plumb in the system changes like brake booster etc? And if you are not using a tune that has been developed like that, plus your overspecced forged engine and good turbo, then I wouldn't use either 440's or 630's as they are about twice as slow as some of the ones you can use. You may have to modify the fitments of them but there are better ones like the 5-0 Motorsport ones we use or ID's? As for the intake manifold - I am assuming this to be a mk3 VR6? We never got the mk4 12v's here - if so, there is little helmholtz frequency tuning because Schrick bought the rights and it needs mapping accordingly. If it is a mk4 with variable resonance manifold, lot's can be modded in the oem ecu to sort out peak torque, change over functions etc to suit. This will depend on your mapper though as most are not au fait with Motronic technicalities - but if you're using a well named tune - then you are best speaking to them to see how they developed it! Plus some will chime in about heat soak etc Link to post Share on other sites
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