[moved] Vr6 v 150bhp GTTDI (230lbft of torque!!!!!!)

[gazbrook 0]

Hi guys i have seen a car for sale that really confuses me, a golf gttdi (diesel in other words) I know they are 150bhp which is rapid for a diesel BUT!!! It is also advertised as over 230lbft of torque , will someone please tell me this is absolute crap, i hope it is. No wonder the guy who's selling has had no offers !!! On the add it says beats vr6's 4motions and r32's . What a clown, its on ebay if you want to take a look :?

[binliner 0]

TDIs have torque coming out of their ears and can easily be chipped to that and more (at a seat rr day I was at there was a skoda tdi revo tuned that ran 310lb/ft!)

Ive got a theory about tdi owners... because theyre quick cars but they still have an old man image they all feel they have something to prove so love to have a go! As for beating VR6S... try racing one you might be surprised!

[Eat this 2]

iv heard about a 200 bhp chip for them and yes all deisels hav huge tourque i dont know the numbers but 230lb/ft doesnt sound ott

[acf8181 0]

a vr6 and a pd150 race will be pretty close.

[gazbrook 0]

i have raced one when my car was only chipped at 188 bhp and from about 20 mph upto about 80 i was only a couple of car lengths ahead, i was v impressed but i think this car for sale must be standard because if he had modified his car the bhp should have gone up a bit aswell. Sound like he might be exaggerating to sell the car, all due respect to them though , 150bhp for a diesel is the same power as astra gsi, and ford rs turbo. Still a diesel though!!

[madmonkee 0]

Dave Turner from VW and Audi specialists is a race driver. He has in his possesion a mrk 4 tdi golf. It is tuned to a whopping 220bhp and over 400lb/ft. It is rapido maximus. It races along side him in the VW cup, it will piss over a vr6 anyday, there is also another tdi but in a mrk3 which is a friend of his, again running over 200bhp with massive torque figures. Look for allard tuning on the web, diesel tuners. Massive respect to diesels.

[vrPat 0]

I went upto the dragstrip a couple of years back with a couple of lads off the mk4 forum, one of them has an Anniversary so we had a bit of a tussle on the way up there. I couldn't get him off my back bumper at all so imagine my surprise when we got there and he popped the bonnet and sat there was a TDi (chipped to 190bhp) - he ran down the strip and got identical time to my other mate with a 200bhp 1.8t. When I was racing with him I didn't think for a minute that a diesel could be as quick as a VR, so I never underestimate them these days lol

[andy 0]

TDis are well rapid, don't forget a lot of them are 6 speed too. Chipping them has become popular now but they are torquey as f**k as standard, that 230lb ft is straight out of the box torque figure for 150 brake 1.9TDi. Not sure on the figs for a 2.0TDi, my mate has one and I don't particularly fancy my chances against it. All that performance whilst still getting 50+ mpg. Makes you think.

[nickbee 1]

I was just having a peek at the VW site to see what figures VW quote.

The current 140ps TDi has 236lb/ft ... at 1750 rpm!

[Macca 1]

Feckin hell. Not sure i like this thread!

Ok i have a noob question: why do diesels produce so much torque? Is it simply because they are turboed, or is there something about diesel as a fuel itself?

[nickbee 1]

I don't know but just remember: THEY STILL SOUND RUBBISH

[gazbrook 0]

I think i'm going to cry, i didn't realise diesels had that much torque, yes they do sound crap but they are getting quieter and quieter all the time so don't sound as rough at least,but still it doesn't compare to the throaty sound or a vr .Plus a vr doesn't redline at 5000 rpm like a diesel so time is wasted on a standing start with gear changes for a diesel, i'm still not happy with fast diesels tho!!

[andy 0]

They produce more torque mainly because they use a longer stroke engine. Diesels (because they compress the fuel/air to ignite it rather than using an ignition system) require much higher compression ratios than common petrol engines. This means the piston moves much further in the cylinder, this roughly translates to more leverage (torque) on the crankshaft. The flip side is that they do not rev very highly.

[Macca 1]

I see, cheers for that

[Eat this 2]

the lack of revs means low bhp but they r seriously grunty

[Guest]

I hate to bring everyone down to earth with a bump, but TDi#s:-

*Can incredibly cheapily be chipped to 200bhp

*Ridiculous amount or torque as standard

*50mpg

*I'll just say that again 50MPG!!

*Sound crap??!! Wait till you hear a Mk5 with decent exhaust!

*Mk4 Tdi's will soon be cheaper than a Mk3 VR6

*Diesel fuel won't ignite when you bend your car around a tree (bad personal experience)

*INSURANCE, Insurance is like group 8 or something ridiculously low

*Hell, why did i buy a petrol VR again?

Oh yeah, cos if i buy a diesel, i'll be getting an automatic next, and thats not the route i want to go down! Makes you think though doesn't it?

[madmonkee 0]

another thing ya can now get dump valves for the diesels. wicked

[Eat this 2]

i always wondered if u could put a dump valve on 1 never seen 1

[binliner 0]

dean thats we've all been saying!

[antera309 3]

Chip up a GT TDI 150 and it will have more torque than an R32!

Not as exciting to drive though.

[Corr28VR6 0]

if peak torque is at 1750rpm, does this mean that the optimum gear change would be about 3500-4000rpm?? Not a very long power band? Am i right in saying that BHP is worked out by multiplying the torque figure by the revs and dividing that figure by 5252??

[Glyn Mk3 0]

I must admit, tdi's are very tempting these days! The PD 150s especially! But I was researching a new car for my dad the other day, and came across the BMW 330D, now this is a car to be slightly concerned about in our VR6s! (320, yes 320 lb/ft of torque! 151MPH top speed, 0-60MPH in 7 seconds! with average MPG at 40MPG! All out of a standard 3 litre diesel car.

I can see the price of diesel going up sooner or later with these kinds of cars becoming available!

[nickbee 1]

Yeah, evo reckon that the 330D is the best 'real life' 3-series you can buy!

[FishWick 21]

And what's even more depressing is the 150 TDIs regularly produce 180bhp out of the box! VW were conservative with the figures. I have driven one and initially you think to yourself the VR stands no chance in hell, but despite the tall gearing to counter act the short torque spread, it runs out of revs very quickly. Once you get to 4500rpm, the taps are turned off very abruptly. A chip usually extends the rev range a bit but you can't escape the physics of diesel blocks unfortunately. Currently compression ratios are around 15 to 18:1. Engine manufacturers are looking at reducing the compression ratio to increase revs, and then the block can be sleeved alloy to save weight too. Diesel has a very bright future at the moment.

[gazbrook 0]

In the golfs defence the vr6 is knocking on a bit, the bmw 330d is quite a new car hence newer technology , also about 10- £15,000 more expensive and if i ever do manage to soup my car up to 330lb/ft of torque i know it would destroy 7 seconds that the 330d does, still good for a diesel tho