ID Card-worth reading!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cadguy77 0]

Subject: The truth behind the new ID cards

You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed a crucial stage in the House of Commons.

You may feel that ID cards are not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to that. What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity Register) where all of your personal details will be stored. This will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there.

There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence status and many other private and personal facts about you. There is unlimited space for every other details of your life on the NIR database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without further Acts of Parliament.

By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would be wrong to come to this conclusion. This new card will be used to check your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever you present it to 'prove who you are'.

Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every chemist, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your card can be 'swiped' to check your identity. Each time this happens, a record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was presented.

This means for example, that there will be a government record of every time you withdraw more than £99 at your branch of Nat West, who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made at the NIR. Restaurants and off licences will demand that your card is swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over 18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them from prosecution.

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If you want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe.

If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card,or a supermarket loyalty card, or a driving licence you will have to present your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or a mobile phone or an internet account.

Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just as every other business will be. This means that each of these entities will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place all your travel, phone records, driving activities and detailed shopping habits under your unique NIR number. These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally. It will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a detailed dossier of all your activities.

Certainly, the government will have clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down to the level of what sort of bread you eat - all accessible via a single unique number in a central database.

This is quite a significant leap from a simple ID Card that shows your name and face.

Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it.

The Government is going to COMPEL you to enter your details into the NIR and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you whether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye scanned, you will not be able to get a passport.

Your ID Card will, just like your passport, not be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that requires you to present your government issued ID Card.

The arguments that have been put forwarded in favour of ID Cards can be easily disproved. ID Cards WILL NOT stop terrorists; every Spaniard has a compulsory ID Card as did the Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not 'eliminate benefit fraud', which in comparison, is small compared to the astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be measured in billions according to the LSE (London School of Economics). This scheme exists solely to exert total surveillance and control over the ordinary free British Citizen, and it will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.

If you did not know the full scope of the proposed ID Card Scheme before and you are unsettled as to what it really means to you, your country and its way of life, I urge you to email or photocopy this and give it to your friends and colleagues and everyone else you think should know and who cares.

The Bill has proceeded to this stage due to the lack of accurate and complete information on this proposal being made public.

Rebel, and rebel now before it's too late

[VR6Lee 1]

This is gonna be a good debate, Cadders 8)

Rebel Rebel you say !mistrust

The only reason to be against identity cards is if you have something to hide. There are lots of benefits to the cards and there is no reason why the cards should hold any information. I see nothing wrong with the cards being used by police to gain access to criminal records, or by the doctor to gain access to medical records, or the DVLC to gain access to driving records. These records don't have to be on the cards, but can allow the relevent authority to access it. I also believe that DNA should be taken from every new born baby and every immigrant as a crime prevention initiative. It doesn't worry me. Why does it worry you? What have you got to hide? !mistrust

[cadguy77 0]

Now that's a very narrow minded view, there are plenty of reasons to be against this type of ID card. I’ve got nothing to hide, but why should access to information on mine and my family's whereabouts and financial goings on be freely available to anyone who wants to know. Basically you won't be able to move in this country without the Government knowing about it. And there is a potential that any of your activity that someone deems inappropriate or useful, may be used against you either as blackmail or threaten the safety of your nearest and dearest.

If you deem yourself that you wish not to be found because you feel at risk for your safety, there will be details of your whereabouts that is accessible to anyone.

A system like this will prove very hard to keep secure from the wrong sort of people wishing to use the information stored on it.

If you want to volunteer to be a Government Guinea Pig m8, go ahead, you can count me out.

[six appeal 53]

Sorry Cadguy, I'm with Lee on this, I pay my taxes and have nothing to hide (Ok I don't run a front number plate on my VR ) But other than that I have no problem with an ID card, in fact I'm actually quite looking forward to them if the truth be know. I see what your saying about it becoming a policed state with lots of people knowing your goings on, but if your not doing anything wrong, and I'm not implying you are, then I don't see where there's a problem?

Just my views as you have yours.

Simon.

[VR6Lee 1]

Not at all Cadders, very broad minded take those blinkers off

[goonersteve 0]

The only reason to be against identity cards is if you have something to hide. There are lots of benefits to the cards and there is no reason why the cards should hold any information.

It doesn't worry me. Why does it worry you? What have you got to hide? !mistrust

Whether you have something to hide or not, is irrelevant IMO.

Basically it is none of their business what anybody purchases, or where anybody goes. They are just scare-mongering people by playing the 'terrorist card', even though they know fulwell that it will have little to no impact on counter-terrorism! Do they really think that any terrorists or professional crim's will have valid cards????!.....what a JOKE!!!

Anyway, just for arguments sake......would you still have the same opinion if, for whatever reason, you were falsely under investigation for something and had your card witheld / suspended, therefore disabling you from withdrawing ££ from your own bank account, or any of the other things they will be needed for??!!!!!

Everyone will have their own opinion on it, but i know i'm def forwarding this email on cos i think it is a load of B.S!

[cadguy77 0]

There are some pro's for ID cards in some form, but for me there are too many cons with this type of card and information that is held on that card.

To be honest how many Joe Public here know how much control we have to whether these become compulsory or not?

[VR6Lee 1]

Cadguy ya make it out its only us in Europe that is going to try the ID card. The system has already approved the living standards in in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Demark, Germany and Spain. Look at Canada and Australia the former British colony, do not block your mind, try to justify a new age social structure to fight the criminals and gain the trust of the system.

[cadguy77 0]

Have you lived in any of these countries Lee? Do you know what it was like before they introduced your much loved system?

I think not, your comment is void m8

Think of it this way, your excessive purchases of duck tape for non-trade purposes will ring bells at the met

[bazz780 0]

>> more popcorn

[VR6Lee 1]

Void LOL. A national ID card is for organising our daily affairs and put in the hand of a government we trust. We have fundamental problems in this country and that is not trusting the governmental system.

I want to provide better service to all our children, have liable statistics that help our health system and education, we need to cut the mass of paper work for every thing we do in our daily life. Imagine how many papers has to be filled for a simple criminal record, on and on each day and the manpower ya use to create some thing that might get lost two days later. ID-card provides more efficiency to actions. Look at the experiences in all these countries that have the system, look at their crime and fraud rates, and see how they use the National Personal ID. Lets study it and make it saver, we are at computer age, the same way we put number on our car to get it recognised, we get numbers on bank card, we number the new born baby in hospital. Civil Liberty is not the protection for a scum bags who dodge paying tax and keep cheating the system with his criminal records. Each year you are delaying the ID card ya just put the whole country couple years back for no reason. I don't wanna go back to Dark ages 'Bring Out The Dead'.

[Seademon 0]

Im all for having an ID card that has my details on with a pic of my face so that authorities can verify who I am and thats a good idea but would be against my details being collected about my every move for this to be viewed by whoever wants to see it, i dont see the point unless I had a criminal record etc then I would see the relevance. I've got nothing to hide at all but its all just too 'Big Brother' for me having people know how much I spend, what I buy etc, what I do & where I go etc. Our freedoms being taken away bit by bit ~

I will leave it aslong as possible before I would have to get one (I've only just got a photocard license!) thats unless I havent emigrated to Oz before then

[cadguy77 0]

well Lee maybe we should look at improving the systems individually, instead of a blanket answer that allows everyong to be traced and track.

[goonersteve 0]

>> more popcorn

LMAO!! !lol

[VR6Lee 1]

Anyway' date=' just for arguments sake......would you still have the same opinion if, for whatever reason, you were falsely under investigation for something and had your card witheld / suspended, therefore disabling you from withdrawing ££ from your own bank account, or any of the other things they will be needed for??!!!!!

Everyone will have their own opinion on it, but i know i'm def forwarding this email on cos i think it is a load of B.S!

[/quote']

Ya paranoia is totally out of proportion Gooner, we have the confusing state of affairs here in the UK where individuals are required to produce anything from utility bills to driving licenses to prove their identity !amazed Laughable yes!

If this new card could replace the driving licence, passport and NI cards, people might be interested.

Reading to much fiction by George Orwell turns ya into conspiracy theorists

[cadguy77 0]

if it was just a card issued with your details on maybe, but it's not gonna be that way Lee.

The point being that anyone with access to the system can track and trace you where ever you go. whether you like it or not, you being an upstanding citizen or mafia boss.

What's ur take on that Lee?

[VR6Lee 1]

Cadders do ya mean, "right to privacy"

The UK does not have a written constitution, So we have no "right" to anything. And what "privacy" do people imagine they have now that they will lose with an ID card? Ya name, address, age, nationality, occupation, shopping habits, car registration, blood group, etc, etc are already on countless public and private databases, wake up man it's 2006

[cadguy77 0]

but centralising all that info plus more gives the government insight into what i do in any given 24hr period. why should i allow someone else (who i didn't elect) access to my life?

Your view is valid m8 but as i said before rather you then me

[antera309 3]

The Government wouldn't be spending all this money if they didn't expect to see a return on their investment. The only question is how.

As well as the fingerprint & retina scan, other biometric information will be read by the camera (such as distance between eyes, nose & mouth, skin colour etc) to allow surveillance cameras to identify you on sight.

No doubt this capability will be used to enforce petty laws just like speed cameras & parking cameras do with our car registrations right now. An automatic £60 fine in the post for dropping litter, spitting in the street or walking on the grass in your local park? You'd better believe it.

Then there's all the money they'll make from selling the tracking data to private companies.

As for the privacy side of things, don't even get me started.

Ask yourself this - If you were to go for a job interview, would you be happy with the prospective Employer using the NIR to "profile" your personality (in other words, strereotype you) according to what car you drive, whether you smoke or drink, how healthily you eat, and what you do on Saturday nights? Discrimination on age and race is bad enough. This will open a whole new can of worms, and the Government will be held directly responsible.

[squirreleater 0]

Interesting, the very same first post was put up on the suzuki owners club forum a few weeks ago......It would seem suzuki owners/bikers are a touch more anti establishment than Vr owners !shy !lol

The way i see it, ID cards didn't help the spanish stop terroists blowing them up a year ago ,so the argument about security is a non starter.

ANY measures inntroduced can and will be overcome by the criminal element, the only people who will be controlled by these cards will be the ones who generally obay the law-you and I !

Make no mistake, these cards WILL intrude on our privicy(?)

This government has way too much control over us anyway, stinking hypocrites-do as we say, not as we do! (anyone need a loan?? !lol )

Do you really trust princess tony and his cronies to introduce this? Dome anyone?scottish parliment building?

We'll see how keen everyone is when a bill for several hundred pounds drops on your mat for your ID card ! Trust me, it's going to cost us plenty, and all so you can vanish from the system if someone makes a mistake on a computer or is having a bad day- some no-job government borg that you and i are oaying for too........

Grrrrr

[squirreleater 0]

Oh, if ,as is stated often, this information about us is readily available then why bother with ID cards?

Wouldn't be about creating jobs, justifying jobs would it?

Nahhh.

[VR6Lee 1]

but centralising all that info plus more gives the government insight into what i do in any given 24hr period. why should i allow someone else (who i didn't elect) access to my life?

Your view is valid m8 but as i said before rather you then me

Day 2 the debate:

As I said before I'm a honest, generally law abiding citizen I want better service everywhere, less forms, less hassle and more online access to everything that touches me and my children. This includes fines, medical prescriptions, taxes, shopping, passports, pensions and even cashless money.

Just cut your losses Cadders stop moaning against ID cards and get with the program dude, let the efficiencies shine and trust that the UK political and judicial system will not turn into a tyrannical dictatorship.

If the government, police or customs have a reason to talk to ya or research into what ya doing - they can and will do it anyway so let's all stop pretending they can't.

Move on.........

[goonersteve 0]

Anyway' date=' just for arguments sake......would you still have the same opinion if, for whatever reason, you were falsely under investigation for something and had your card witheld / suspended, therefore disabling you from withdrawing ££ from your own bank account, or any of the other things they will be needed for??!!!!!

Everyone will have their own opinion on it, but i know i'm def forwarding this email on cos i think it is a load of B.S!

[/quote']

Ya paranoia is totally out of proportion Gooner, we have the confusing state of affairs here in the UK where individuals are required to produce anything from utility bills to driving licenses to prove their identity !amazed Laughable yes!

If this new card could replace the driving licence, passport and NI cards, people might be interested.

Reading to much fiction by George Orwell turns ya into conspiracy theorists

Is it my paranoia?......or your own naivety??? :?

[cadguy77 0]

lee if your happy with being constantly monitored then that's up to you chum(p).

Then again i don't go to church and believe everything i'm told.

[VR6Lee 1]

Reading to much fiction by George Orwell turns ya into conspiracy theorists

Is it my paranoia?......or your own naivety??? :?

Naive LOL wot are ya gonna do then Steve run around with a UNISON placard trying to stop it, I know start a riot in my London town, no ya won't. The British public will only riot over money or furry animals. As I said before.........

'Just cut your losses stop moaning against ID cards and get with the program dude, let the efficiencies shine and trust that the UK political and judicial system will not turn into a tyrannical dictatorship'.

'If the government, police or customs have a reason to talk to ya or research into what ya doing - they can and will do it anyway so let's all stop pretending they can't'.

Get with the programme It's 2006 or is it different in Norfolk